isn't it november already?

[drop]

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/20/po...20DIPL.html?hp

i think the president's real goal in office is to isolate the United States as much as possible by pissing off all of our "friends"

can't wait till november

[marcel]

bit senseless to post a link to a site there one has to sign up before reading. what are you referring to?

[drop]

oh sorry,
couldn't hurt to sign up to the nytimes
could it : )

the story is about the king of jordan postponing his visit with bushy in light of bushy's endorsement of the israeli plan to pull out of gaza.

the story also includes refs to the pullout of spanish and honduran troops fm iraq.

the spanish and honduran don't really bug me that much, from a international realtions point. the spanish have always been kinda cool to the US, aside fm the aznar admin, and the honduran contribution was token at best,
but it worries me that egypt and jordan are extremly pissed at the US at the moment because bushy opened mouth and inserted foot.

like i said
is it november already
cause another 4 years of this dude is dangerous

[marcel]

Originally posted by drop
oh sorry,
couldn't hurt to sign up to the nytimes
could it : )

no it doesnt but i cant be bothered to do it just for one article. my time is limited. and sometimes i like to read something in german
(and the nytimes isnt anymore what it used to be, as far as what ive heard)

bush did a big fault by giving sharon what he want. that could turn out to become one of his biggest faults in his notfaultless career.
the hamas already said they are going to attack now also uspeeps and there are the first voices combining the iraquirebellion with the conbat of the palestinian

the usadministriation knows how to make trouble bigger n bigger. they know that well

[drop]

i'm not too worried about hamas, they have dead leader issues, or the iraqi rebellion, they been siding with the palestianian cause since the insurgency began. the bigger problem is the countries that have been working to correct the issues of the Middle East since the Reagan admin. turning on us because Bushy is too busy cutting secret deals and b/s, to see the big picture.

next he probably going to say that the CIA told him it was a good idea to endorse the plan. what an idiot!!!

[marcel]

Originally posted by drop
i'm not too worried about hamas, they have dead leader issues,

oh, how funny..
--

i still think that you really don't realize how the situation in the middle east is actually. try reading some proper newspaper from outside the usa, if you don't do already.
because if nothing surprisingly usefull for the usa happens in the next months- they (the us troops) will get seriously fucked down there. the whole situation is going to collapse. and the usa will never get a foot again in that region for more than 6months after a surprisingly goodoutgoing war..

"next he probably going to say that the CIA told him it was a good idea to endorse the plan. what an idiot!!!"
that'd pull him out of the presidentschair. so, why not?

[drop]

wasn't really trying to be THAT funny, but i do agree with you, the president has seriously lost the plot. that why i was happy and surprised to see that the UN and the US agreed on a takeover strategy for June 30. if the cease-fire in falluja holds, and the foreign fighter in that city turned over (maybe) then the possibility of things improving are greatly increased. After the insurgency the ball is really in the hands of the iraqi leaders themselves, the US position is that they have to find the positives for themselves, the US is just there for "support"
we'll see.

[invisibleplanet]

the funniest thing is, three years ago, i could find references to an actual planned road (intended to stretch from israel thru iraq to the gulf) and now all i can find is the blind that is 'the road map to peace'.
all i can think of is that 'peace' is a codename for getting some 'thing' that the usgovernment and adminstration have been trying to get for a while (ie. guaranteed oil supply from the middle east since they pulled out from proposed drilling in S.America (esp.Venezuela).

[drop]

QUOTE]Originally posted by invisibleplanet
the funniest thing is, three years ago, i could find references to an actual planned road (intended to stretch from israel thru iraq to the gulf) and now all i can find is the blind that is 'the road map to peace'.
all i can think of is that 'peace' is a codename for getting some 'thing' that the usgovernment and adminstration have been trying to get for a while (ie. guaranteed oil supply from the middle east since they pulled out from proposed drilling in S.America (esp.Venezuela). [/quote]

theres alot of truth in your statement, but i also think that the US and the Middle East are playing a balencing act btwn environmental issues (the reason for pulling out of s. american drilling, with the exception of venezuela), and the economic issues that pertain to oil production in the Middle East and how it effects those countries, and seperatly how it effects the United States.

i still believe that the majority of the oil coming out of the Middle East goes to Europe and Asia, and is produced and shipped by large European companies such as Esso and Shell.

in the end the US government is going to have to roll back some of the environment protections its given to places like the alaskan reserve in order to meet supply and demand.

in the meantime buy a hybrid, save some gas, and make arguements like this redundent.

[drop]

Originally posted by marcel

oh, how funny..
--

i still think that you really don't realize how the situation in the middle east is actually. try reading some proper newspaper from outside the usa, if you don't do already.
because if nothing surprisingly usefull for the usa happens in the next months- they (the us troops) will get seriously fucked down there. the whole situation is going to collapse. and the usa will never get a foot again in that region for more than 6months after a surprisingly goodoutgoing war..

"next he probably going to say that the CIA told him it was a good idea to endorse the plan. what an idiot!!!"
that'd pull him out of the presidentschair. so, why not?

http://www.onlinenewspapers.com/

[marcel]

Originally posted by drop
After the insurgency the ball is really in the hands of the iraqi leaders themselves, the US position is that they have to find the positives for themselves, the US is just there for "support"
we'll see.

yeah, support=muppets.

there will never be a real democratic election in iraq supported by the usa. because everyone, even the neocons, who knows just a bit about that country knows what would come out of that: a shiit leader, religious and fundamental (the shiits take around 60% of the iraqi population, and had nothing to say under saddam in opposite to the sunni).
by no means does the us want that, it would be as worse as saddam was or even more worse.

"i still believe that the majority of the oil coming out of the Middle East goes to Europe and Asia, and is produced and shipped by large European companies such as Esso and Shell. "

oh bullshit! go, read a book about modern economy and come back.
you have no clue what a mass of oil the usa is comsuming these days- by far does europe not consume that much. and don't go and compare the usa with asia, the continent with more people on it then elsewhere! and even there i think the usa is still comsuming more than whole asia. not sure though, anyone could search out an onlinestatistics.
i remember someone calling the usa an junkie for oil. that sumes their behavior in that issue that great up, it makes me smile everytime i think of it. or cry, whatever

jesus, i have to stop visiting the central, it keeps me here way to long

i'm out
marcel

[drop]

calm down marcy jeez,
i wasn't pointing fingers
i was just stating what i know
i do agree that americans consume more oil than anyone else but that doesn't mean that all that oil comes from the middle east, i far as i understand the biggest markets for middle eastern oil, not oil in general, is europe and asia.

thats why i walk, or use public transport
i am going to buy a car, cause i have to (public transport sucks here) but i've decided to buy something that uses little or no gas at all.

[invisibleplanet]

so drop, when do u think they'll pull the saddham court-case wild card out of the pack? just in time to run concurrently during the run-up to the election/s?

[drop]

well if the war is going badly
then they're going to have to pull saddam out as a reminder
if not the actual court-case, stories leading up to the court-case could serve the purpose.

i don't think we'll see saddam on trial until next year, besides the defense evidense puts bushy in just a bad light

by the time november rolls around, if the UN plan holds, iraq probably won't be in the news here as much. i think by that time domestic issues should be front and center.

[pille'ocheoni]

oh jesus. didnt we allready do this last week?

[drop]

yeah i was a little hesitant in post a political thread but i'm getting a better vibe from this one,
see how long it holds out

[drop]

yeah i was a little hesitant in posting a political thread but i'm getting a better vibe from this one,
see how long it holds out

[wheezer]

Consumption (Millions of barrels per day): Top 20 Countries
United States: 19.993
Japan: 5.423
China: 4.854
Germany: 2.814
Russia: 2.531
South Korea: 2.126
Brazil: 2.123
Canada: 2.048
France: 2.040
India: 2.011
Mexico: 1.932
Italy: 1.881
United Kingdom: 1.699
Spain: 1.465
SaudiArabia: 1.415
Iran: 1.109
Indonesia: 1.063
Netherlands: .881
Australia: .879
Taiwan: .846

[Yer_Maw]

per head of population though?

[wheezer]

Doubt it's millions of barrels per day per head, we'd be in deep shit...

[Yer_Maw]

hey if you can think of a better food source than crude oil, then i'd like to know...

[drop]

i'm not going to defend the US consumption of oil
as stated i'm going to try to do my thing to lessen that cause it embassing (sort of many of the countries listed have neither the roads, space, or population to compete with US consumption) but would like to know

what would happen to the world economy if the US halved that in 5 years?

how many countries depend on the US demand for oil

i think the auto manufactures here have seen the writing on the wall, not from an economic or political standpoint, but from an environmental standpoint thus the slow, but steady, flow of hybrids
this trend, while exciting, is also cause for worry because there are too many countries that are totally dependent on oil as it main income.
reducing the consumption of oil is fine, and probably easy.
replacing the industry is the difficult part

[wheezer]

So it's ok for the US to consume 4 times as much oil as China every day because otherwise we'd all be living in poverty? Let me ask you this:

How many countries would continue to depend on the US demand for oil if the US were to make any real effort to reduce its consumption?

[pille'ocheoni]

not many. nitrus powered cars! hehe.

[drop]

well its not ok
that what i'm saying re-read my post

my example is this: before the oil rush that made saudi arabia what it is, in terms of wealth what did it have- what does it have to fall back on if the US suddenly cut its demand and all the autos became hybrids

thats what i'm asking
most economys are one trick ponies, they only have one industry and thats it, cut that off and you have a serious problem.

its not our problem, maybe not on the surface, but when countries feel economically insecure then it becomes a problem.

as stated in 3 other post: i walk, or ride the bus, because puerto rico is a beautiful place with too many god damn cars smelling up the air. i have refused to be a part of it, but since the auto lobby has the public transportation sector by the neck i'm forced to buy a car. so i'm buying a hybrid, what do you drive?

[invisibleplanet]

it would be the ultimate irony if one of the states were to seek independence from washington.....have there ever been talks of such a separation? the law seems to differ so much between states that it's as though they are separate countries to me!

[invisibleplanet]

o - i drive a 20 yr old bike with wicker basket and panniers that i can ride in a skirt and carry a weeks shopping home without elongating my arms to a ridiculous chimp-like length!
i haven't yet learned to drive, because i seem to get everywhere i want to be on public transport, foot or bike, and cars seem so smelly and dangerous to the environment...i had considered pootling around in a milk-float but i imagine i'd lose the shred of street cred i have left!

sorry..back to the oil issue.
haven't those darling german engineers already invented non-oil engines? i also heard that u could run a cossack motorbike (my dream motorbike) on vodka ....nice idea and true!

[aleks]

i just saw on the news that bush has got 51% of the votes, kerry only 46% ... seems like the usa will have a monkey in charge. and he still believes that he will bring democracy to iraq. HA! you´ll never ever will see a democratic country in that region of the planet, just because that way of life is not theirs. even if they get elections in june, the outcome will be something similar what we now have in iran.

[drop]

yes there have been states that tried to seperate, but it resulted in the civil war
nobodys in a hurry to try that again
i think our system is setup so theres always a conflict btwn the state and the federal government.

about the bike

right on!!!!
i think the world was a better place when people had to get around using the two feet God gave them.

[drop]

Originally posted by aleks
i just saw on the news that bush has got 51% of the votes, kerry only 46% ... seems like the usa will have a monkey in charge. and he still believes that he will bring democracy to iraq. HA! you´ll never ever will see a democratic country in that region of the planet, just because that way of life is not theirs. even if they get elections in june, the outcome will be something similar what we now have in iran.

those are just polls
its still early and usually the president in office always does well in the early polls, wait until mid-summer when they hit the road.