guestlist culture: does it stink?

[mr.lizard]

your thoughts please everyone...

below is a draught of a document i'm preparing, so that i can send it out as an autoreply when i get the requisite 50 emails on the eve of one of our club nights, all trying to blag guestlists.

is it too arsey? or do you think it's fair?
thanks
lizard

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THE WERK GUESTLIST POLICY*

Please read the most suitable category below for your guestlist application.

PAYING GUEST LIST?
Fine. Unless it’s a ticket event, we’re happy to do guaranteed entry lists (at full price) for people who really want to make sure they get in. This list will have a cut-off time however (unless under exceptional circumstances).

FRIEND OF THE ARTIST?
We give our artists a more than generous guestlist. So if you’re not on that, I’m afraid you may not quite be as good a friend as you think. Ask the artist themselves, not us.

JOURNALIST?
If you’re seriously working on a story, fine, let us know. But unless you are doing a bona fide review for a magazine or newspaper (or websites that are regularly updated and well-subscribed), why on earth should you get in for free?! I mean, you get all the music sent to you for free, and now you want to not have to pay to see the artist too?! Shit man, doesn’t that just take the piss out of the punters who have to pay for the music AND for their entry too? Let’s face it: we know we’re never gonna be the “next big thing”, and even if we were, we wouldn’t want it to happen because we’d brown-nosed the media…

IN THE MUSIC INDUSTRY?
Does working in the music industry mean you automatically get in free to everything? Not in our book – join the back of the queue.

SKINT?
Hey – WE are skint too. These parties quite often cost US money, so you’re preaching to the converted. Let’s not turn this into the battle of who is most skint.

A FRIEND OF OURS?
You don’t mind chipping in do you? Ideally we’d let you in for free, of course, but the fact is we need your contribution. If you really are struggling for money we could knock the price down a few quid – give us a bell and let us know.

*GENERAL NOTE - PLEASE READ
This policy has been spawned by the sheer infuriation of running club nights at a loss due to hoards of people who believe they shouldn’t have to pay to go out anymore. Well, we’re sorry, but we just can’t afford to sub everyone else’s fun anymore. We’re not in this for the money – and never have been. If we’ve ever made any money we plough it back in to get better guests or to run our label. If we have many more nights where we lose money, then there won’t be any more Werk at all. And that would be very sad. Well, for us at least.

We’re not trying to be horrible to anyone. If someone’s done us a favour or we really want them to come but know they can’t afford it, then we’ll offer them a guestlist. Otherwise, we just think the guestlist culture in club nights stinks, and we don’t want to do things that way. We hope you understand.

Cheers
The Werkers
Po-faced Division

Seems fine to me. I agree thats it's not always possible to let everyone you want in, I've actually been very lucky to have been a part of the guestlist culture for the last few months down my local for handing out flyers and the like. They even let me in for free last month because I was skint!

I'm pretty proud that last weekend was the first time I've had to pay to get in the door for the last few months and it was a residents night to boot, so it's not like I was skimping out because there wasn't a named guest there.

[TroyMoyOnions]

im with that Lizard......always paid for my werk-outs, its not as if your charging loads anyway...


what if your Madona though?

[TroyMoyOnions]

some other folk who dont want no piss taking.....

OPTIMO DOOR POLICY

Optimo tries to operate the most egalitarian door policy that we can. Recently this has failed, so as of now we will endeavour to make the following work - if you feel it isn't working, please let us know.



From now on NOBODY skips the queue and we mean nobody (if Henrik Larsson or Madonna come down, tough - they can get in line with everyone else). Everyone trying to skip the queue will be informed that they can't and if we find anyone has found a way to sneak in, we will have them barred. The only exceptions to this rule will be people who work with us, Sub Club staff having a night off and on very rare occasions if we have close friends from out of town who we have invited down - for example my sister comes about once every two years so I'm not going to make her queue, but I will make my girlfriend queue!



Also, if you are on the guest list, this will no longer ensure that you get in. If the club is oversubscribed and you are at the back of the queue but on the guest list - tough - you should have got there earlier.



For us, life isn't a popularity contest so we don't care one iota if this pisses anyone off. The people who will moan about this are the people who we couldn't care less whether they were at the club or not. Just because you have been coming to the club for years does not make you superior to someone who has just discovered Optimo.



Hopefully this will work and won't lapse back to the old ways after a few weeks. Hopefully it will make the club a more enjoyable experience for everyone and we can get on with doing what we love doing most - sloppy djing - and not have half our minds worrying about the queue all the time.

One thing you can all do though - if you are in the queue and people are skipping in in front off you, politely tell them to beat it.

Twitch, Wilkes, Roland & Mac - May 2003




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[marcel]

thats ok, lizard.
myself, i cant remember the last time i payed entrance at clubachtermai, but also on the other hand i had played there for a friends party without getting moneyor another time for less money.
its okay for a few people but youre right this whole guestlistthing has exploded in the last years.
strange then you start thinking about the fact that this whole scene in the beginning was meant to be without classes!
its just about the proportions

[V Knid esq]

Well, as a journo, I'm a prime offender at trying my luck wherever I can - but I'm always totally happy to be on a paying list, and understand if it's a small and/or oversubscribed gig and it's not even possible to guarantee that. Marcel is absolutely spot on, we should be fighting ideas of club royalty and whatnot wherever we can.

[squear]

This is areally problem. I can remember, that we had on one party a list from over 100 people. And if you say no, some people make trouble, that we got enough money, blablabla ...
The same, i I or my girlfriend playing as DJ anywhere, some hours befor we get a lot of phone calls. This sucks. Now I ever say no to all this guys, because I know, organizing a party is a hard business. On the other hand, I don't know, when I payed the last time for entrance. But the difference is I don't begging for a place on guestlist

[adsr]

I don't understand why people don' t understand that by paying they are supporting the events?....

If you like the artist/event, then pay....simple....

[thetonewrecker]

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

I've found a good working releationship with the local club here in Minneapolis. They put myself and girlfriend on the guestlist for each saturday and then I perform at no charge a couple times a year . Works good trading services like that.

I'm off to see Derrick Carter in 20 minutes for the low door price of $8.00 and only 150 people is capacity. There are quite a few events here that state "no guestlist" and they have just as many enthusiasts showing up. It will be tight, and everyone is looking forward to paying the small fee for a good night of music.

[invisibleplanet]

all seems fair mr.lizard.

and restating your 'profit ploughshare' ethos should drive the point home to the blaggers!

i discovered i was on the guestlist at my local club months after i'd been paying to get in, and since have used that privelege only once, and that was when i took two payers along with me, (really skint that weekend), but even though i'm still on the guestlist, i'd only use it if i was brassic lint.

[Reese]

Personally, I reckon a smiple "no" would be better. saying stuff l;ike "Im afraid you may not quite be as good a friend as you think" isn't necessary. In buisness (and that's what this is) being polite and courteous at all times is paramount.

I appreciate that there are tonnes are liggers and blaggers out there, but if you piss them off, they'll NEVER come back, and that wouldn't be cool.

Just my tuppeny.

when we do events we have someone working out how many street credits you have. this determines how little you pay. You get street credit from doing various cool media stuff and knowing people. I have 87.9 street credits. The main question we ask from behind the clipboard is: "do you know who i am?"

[Lady E]

yes sounds fair - i always did the door on any clubs we did, and lost count of the number of times people told me they were a close friend of cristian's and demanded to be let in...and other despicable behaviour

BUT if we do a night there are always a lot of people who have helped us out either for free or very little and they have to get in free...but that is a not the same as doing regular nights like werk and optimo where the nonsense must grind you down week after week.

i think its out of order of the optimo bloke to make his girlfriend queue up though...thats taking it way too far. whats the point?

finally, as some of you know, we are always happy to try to arrange guestlists for any of you in gigs for cristian, super_collider and other friends if possible.

[Goonie]

If you're having that much bother, why not just advertise on your night as "no guest list" you never know this might actually attract more people to Werk?

[Weishaupt]

Originally posted by emma

finally, as some of you know, we are always happy to try to arrange guestlists for any of you in gigs for cristian, super_collider and other friends if possible.

right!....thats always great....!
thank you for this!

[MUX]

well, my scene in so small here, that i always get guestlist, even at Arch-enemies events.

i feeling kinda shy, cause i asked ya for guestlist mr.lizard not to be a free be, but too guarante entry , cause we were travelling.

Obviously, your event was worth every penny, and i was really impressed by the turnout you get for an event on a thursday nite... hey but i guess that's london

i think you could arrange for a friends price tho.. in your events

[invisibleplanet]

it really is taking the piss in one sense, as we're all into such a 'minority sport', if it doesn't pay for itself, we can 't have it, so there's got to be a door tax.

[Lady E]

we did a gig at the now deceased lift club in brighton a couple of years ago with super_collider, a practice gig for Roskilde or something...anyway they hadnt played in brighton for at least a year and we knew it would be oversubscribed with guestlist requests so we did the gig at a £1 entrance for all to make it fair, which covered costs.

and people (not our friends, thankfully) still blagged and argued. i was disgusted. one bloke wanted to pay 40 p because he had turned up at 10.30 and it shut at 11.

this bloke whose name i have now deleted because he was such a tosser, he is bound to find out ive been flaming him and i cant be arsed to ever think about him again. he talked to me for ages about how he 'knew jeff reid' (who ran the club, and is a friend of mine for many years now) and kept on saying to me 'its all about the money for people like you isnt it?' because i wouldnt let him off the 60p.he even said did i know who he was? and at the end of it when i had roundly abused him, he wanted me to listen to his demo. fucker.

i hate people like that and i hate the battle of wills they make you engage in.

[Virus]

if people want to hear the music they will pay no matter who they are, if they don't want to pay and hence hear the music, what are they doing there in the first place?

i ran a guest list at my now defunkt wee night, and people tried to take the piss so much it was ridiculous, i even had one person try to convince me he was jamie lidell whe he was clearly some scottish punter i had see down there and every other techno club in edinburgh for years!! it got to the point that folks just expected it, even friends and we just decided to can the whole thing and make em all pay.

so your policy is more than fair in my opinion mr lizard.

people are daft. they get it back to front. they don't mind paying to go to some huge corporate event like sonar, but when their mates do something they grudge giving them their money. and we're usually only talking about the price of 2 or 3 drinks...

ps - reason why optimo guy (aka keith) is being so strict is that optimo often is so oversubscribed that people have to queue for hours to get in...meanwhile lots of 'cool' people are waltzing in in front of these determined folk who surely are far more deserving. not saying i would make MY bird queue up, right enough.

[Lady E]

yes ok, keith sorry didnt know which one had written that.

i understand completely what they are saying and i agree wholeheartedly but just not on the girlfriend bit. thats just trying too hard to prove a point...no-one would begrudge a partner getting in. in fact i would count her / him as crew.

[mr.lizard]

well, cheers for that guys. of course i let my girfriend in for free and all the other guys involved get one in free too.

it's been pointed out that it needs a bit more humour in the document (Reese - that "friends" comment is meant to be tongue in cheek!) so maybe i'll try and do that.

you're right emma it is fucking infuriating when these fuckers turn up and don't wanna pay. we even had that when we were charging £3 at our last venue. we charge £8 at the moment, but if we start getting smaller guests we'll lower the price.

next one's surgeon, by the way - anyone fancy it?

[Lady E]

may i belatedly apologise for the size and scale of the super_collider guestlist mrL.

[Hazell]

Yo Gav... Can I borrow that letter, man?

p.s. Did you get my mail about the werk next month? :P :P :P


IP kills it dead: we're all into such a 'minority sport', if it doesn't pay for itself, we can 't have it, so there's got to be a door tax.

On somewhat of a tangent, does 'no-one' feel that they can attend and support a night UNLESS they have a pocket full of beer money?

Never understood where the words 'pissed' or 'wankered' fitted into the good old notion, "I'm in it for the music"...

Sober, the music will STILL be there and ya just may take some memories home with ya... Bonus!

[Hazell]

Originally posted by mr.lizard
well, cheers for that guys. of course i let my girfriend in for free and all the other guys involved get one in free too.

Ahaaaaaa! I have an angle!

[mr.lizard]

emma - the super_collider guestlist was absolutely fine. after all, they are a four man band, and it was their only London gig. And we broke even that night and even walked away with about £40 in our pockets - that was perfect...

haze - yeah, feel free to use the letter, and anyone else who runs a night. let's stamp down on guestlist scum...

[Reese]

Originally posted by mr.lizard
(Reese - that "friends" comment is meant to be tongue in cheek!) so maybe i'll try and do that.

I'm not humourless you know!!!

My point was, not everyone can take that kind of stuff, and inadvertantly may get pissed off. Much the same as Message Boards and being misconstrued, it's just as likely to happen with email.

Originally posted by MUX
well, my scene in so small here, that i always get guestlist, even at Arch-enemies events.

Actually up here it's a different case, if you are a promoter then you are pretty much put on the guestlist for all the clubs and you are expected to do the same back. Promoters up here allso talk to each other about forthcoming guests so they don't book the same people within a few months of each other.

[animal night train]

i never ask for guest list places, especially for nights that my mates are putting on. if i'm offered, i'll take it gratefully, but i'd feel dirty asking for it all the time.

[Virus]

Originally posted by mr.lizard


next one's surgeon, by the way - anyone fancy it?

.

when? where? i'll be there, just stick us down on the guest list.....