Wanting to make music

[grobelaar]

Right I've been thinking about posting about this for ages, but keep putting it off - partly because I'm terribly busy and ipartly because it might just turn out to be a disaster, but have decided what the fuck - might as well get the advice regardless...

Have been thinking about making some music, I'm intrigued - no next to fuck all about music, music theory or even what boxes does what, what anything means. But I like electronic music and I'm intrigued enough to want to find out more about how its made and have a go myself...

So I was wondering what got other people on the road to music production, how much they knew at the time and most importantly what advice they have to offer to someone thinking of doing the same...

There is one proviso - it has to have as little to do with computers as possible (I reaslise that they are obviously going to play some part) but I sit in front of computers every day and want to have a hobby with as little to do with them as possible (naturally this means the easy, oh just get yourself a copy of Reason and faff about in that advice doesn't work...)

Also if anyone has any good books to recommend that would be useful too, as I'm quite good at reading - quite fancy getting a drum machine and messing about on that - dunno why - guess I like drums...

Any tips?

[Ruben A]

go start with this...:



haha.. nah, really don´t know were to start - think we have been thru this 1000 times? Have you looked some older posts??
Or can anyone really say what would be easiest for Grob. to do?



But if you want to work the hardware-way lookup some older sequencers/samplers fx. Akai´s/Roland/Korg/yamaha... Akai´s MPC´s are real fun and you might be able to do some tracks just with this machine! They are in a good price at the moment (if you start with mpc2000). Then you can add some other stuff later. Later use your computer along with the hardware. And maybe end in software?? hahaha.. though you didn´t want to! (good to hear! hrhrhrh)
There will be alot of posts in this thread so let´s see...
good luck!

[Weishaupt]

muhahahahaha

[pille'ocheoni]

now for software just get fruityloops and practice with that and then move on o better things.good luck

Originally posted by grobelaar
So I was wondering what got other people on the road to music production, how much they knew at the time and most importantly what advice they have to offer to someone thinking of doing the same...

I love these threads but in this case I wont be of much help I'm afraid (because of the proviso)...

anyways: what got me on the road was that I had this super fast Celeron 433 sitting there doing next to nothing, so I decided to give it go; at that time I had a pretty good knowledge of music theory (those piano lessons finally paid off ), but none whatsoever about synthesis, midi, dsp and the lot. Being the kind of guy that likes a challenge from time to time (and also easily gets bored with his new toys), I started off with Reaktor, which after three odd years is still the most important tool for me. But: here's MY proviso: if I had to do it all over again, I think I'd definitely have started off with some intuitive, hands on hardware (mpc, more limited but fun: the Korg Electribe series, and why not a cheap old analog synth, say a Yamaha CS-15 or so), that is if you want to make music instead of designing sound patches.

Now the most important question would be: what kind of music do you like/would you want to produce?

[M H]

Ok grobs, I've trawled the sos pubs readers ads and here's what I've come up with:

Korg Electribe ER1 £150 Wicked little drum machine from Korg, excellent sounds and dead compact..

Nord Micro Modular: £220 You know it, 1/4 of a nord mod, but as far as bang for your buck goes, really worth it.. I know you want to stay away from computers but if you're interested in synthesis, you can get some really original results.. If you're really turned off by the computer thing you could alternatively go for:

EMI Audity 2000 £150. On a simelar kind of tip, but you have to program it thru the little lcd screen, loads of crossmodulation potential tho, and it keeps you away from the dreaded computer

Yamaha RM1x: £200 Hardware sequencer and tone module, got yer common or garden synth sounds, percussion including GM/XG sounds (I think) so you can have your nice piano if you like that sort of thing.. but solid sequencer as well, I was thinking of getting one of these instead of buying the MPC at one point

Digitech Studioquad fx: £140 add some colour to your sounds with this fx unit, same as mine, loads of expandability for that day when you finally get a desk with 4 auxillaries

Beringer 1604 Mixing desk £100.. I'm sure you know what this does...

So for under £900 you could get this kind of thing together, you may be best just to buy the electribe to start with, the sampling one seems like a nice idea, but I understand that it's a real pig to get your own samples into it....

Anyway, you can have a look for yourselfhttp://www.sospubs.co.uk/adverts/adverts.asp

If you'r not sure what anything is, just do a quick google search...

[bob]

I think you can load your samples via smartmedia if you've got a card writer on your pc. You need to convert them to some korg format first but they have a free program to do this.

also the er-1 can be found for £170 new now, I think in digital village

[bob]

on further thought I have an er-1 and love it, but I would prob get an es-1 instead if i were buying it again. You can then make your own sounds with drum synth or stomper...but you need to use a pc for this. and the es-1 is still quite expensive (compared to the er-1)

[M H]

Originally posted by bob
I think you can load your samples via smartmedia if you've got a card writer on your pc. You need to convert them to some korg format first but they have a free program to do this.

also the er-1 can be found for £170 new now, I think in digital village

That's the bitch though, having to pay out for expensive smartmedia cards.. in this day and age would it have really been a problem to wack a usb port in there?

the micromod will teach you everything you need to know about synthesis. once you use it, you'll be able to use most any synth and totally know what you're doing with it. the down side is the computer dependance for making patches and the initial learning curve for someone new to synthesis is kind of steep. that electribe drum machine is pretty rad and definately a great bang for the buck. maybe even check out a yamaha qy70 or qy100. it's a little hand held sequencer and synth. it has basic general midi sounds and yamaha 's "xg" soundset. looks like a fun little box. the yamaha rm1x also seems like a good all-in-one box as well (much much better than the roland mc-505). and rubens recommendation of the mpc200 is a good one too. or even an older mpc60 would do the trick. that with a nord micro modular and you could kick some serious ass.

[grobelaar]

Cheers for the advice, especially the link to SOS secondhand stuff - that'll explain why there's jack shit equipment on ebay...

Seems like this stuff is pretty cheap secondhand, so I think I'm just gonna say fuck it and get some boxes and see where it goes - seems to be this is the best way to start...

The Nord Micro at the price is mighty tempting, but might be biting of a bit too much - its seems more like some sort of hydrid hardware interface for their software. Well maybe that's not true, but when everything is as customisable as that its something of a moot point whether its hardware or software...

So I reckon a Korg of some description and a mixing desk might be a nice tidy start... to add other things to.

Have a bit of cash at the mo, and its tempting to get some goodies now - but I'm 'sposed to be saving for my new Powerbook... damn, why is there never enought money for new toys...

i seriously think you'll have the most fun just getting some random boxes and throwing them all together. plus, it lets you just grab one and run over to a mates place and jam with them... always a plus. just remember: cheap doesn't always mean shitty. just do your homework. here's other links for gear reviews and stuff:

http://www.sonicstate.com/synth
http://www.vintagesynth.com
http://machines.hyperreal.org

used gear is usually the way to go too. you have less of a chance of losing money. if you don't like what you got you can turn around and sell it and get somethin else. that's tougher with new gear cause as soon as you buy it, it depreciates. all you need is a synth, a drum machine, and a sequencer and you're set. also, a sampler doesn't hurt. some keyboards have built-in sequencers. the ensoniq asr-10 is a sampling keyboard with a built in sequencer thats supposed to be really nice. also, the ensoniq esq keyboard is a synth with an 8 track sequencer built in (fairly basic but very useable). do you know what general types of music you want to make? that can also be a factor in what gear to buy... sorry for the rambling. i'm a gear whore.

[M H]

Originally posted by grobelaar
The Nord Micro at the price is mighty tempting, but might be biting of a bit too much - its seems more like some sort of hydrid hardware interface for their software. Well maybe that's not true, but when everything is as customisable as that its something of a moot point whether its hardware or software...

It is all hardware, the software is just the editor... Bear in mind I don't lug a computer about when I'm playing live with the modular.. you could spend a few hours writing patched, and then take the thing away, and jam with it.. you can also have self sequencing patches that sync to midi, so you wouldn't even need anything else to sequence it, just sync it to the electribe... I'll even provide you with some patches that do just that, normal nord mod patches work with it..... I could just see you with one of these Grobs, you'd get right into it, plus we could be the nord geeks at filth, and talk in incomprehensable language that no-one else understands...

[nickedstole]

yeah, listen to mr hawkins. the nord micro modular is great. and it sounds close to a proper nord lead just with less notes at the same time (who wants more than 4 notes at the same time?!) you have to load in a cool synth patch, but you can get some really cool noises - like kindof random warblings of one tone or feedback effects and stuff. you can do crazy processing of the notes and stuff too i think (midi patches and processing) - (am i right, MH?)

i nearly bought one of these ages ago but stupidly didnt. (i wanted a keyboard and more controls)

you could also get one of those controller keyboards by novation or even a synth one - then you can use it to control the micro modular, but it would be useful for when you decide to use a computer. its the remote 25 i mean. the kstation synth is a bit expensive but quite good.
www.novationonline.co.uk

[grobelaar]

Well cheers for everyone's help - I'm off to see a man about a Nord (christ what am I letting myself in for - although reading another post - I saw the words quasi randomly creating patches - which fills me with hope...)

Grobelaar, get yourself some tissue paper and a comb. Bingo, you've got a kazoo. I swear you'll never look back.

buy a bass and amp for about a hundred quid and start a band with some friends for a laugh. practice until it sounds good.

[pille'ocheoni]

good one.......................or by a sk1 and practice melodies. and then make a drum set out of cans and shit lying around, then you have a "rustic" unotet

[bob]

did you get anything..if so what?

ressurected post...


software and a very fast pc. that'll do the trick. the fruity loops comment isnt off base - buy why waste even 3 months learning that - start off with something like reason, learn what how to make a beat, how to make a synth; learn what the hell an lfo is, and what happens when you mess with it, and then what happens when you tell it how to mess with itself. etc etc. after all of this, if you arent onto your next hobby already, start seriously making some tracks and see if you have any stories to tell.

Take a lock of someone's hair, put it in a box along with their toenail clippings, make a spell over the box, and you'll have them well and truly under your control.

[M H]

Originally posted by special ed
ressurected post...


software and a very fast pc. that'll do the trick. the fruity loops comment isnt off base - buy why waste even 3 months learning that - start off with something like reason, learn what how to make a beat, how to make a synth; learn what the hell an lfo is, and what happens when you mess with it, and then what happens when you tell it how to mess with itself. etc etc. after all of this, if you arent onto your next hobby already, start seriously making some tracks and see if you have any stories to tell.

I think you missed the point, Grobelaar DIDN'T want to be reliant on a computer, he wanted boxes.... Reason can get pretty frustrating to when you find out all the things you CAN't do with it... He's bought a nord micro Mod anyway.....
I tell ya you're skating on thin ice telling Grobelaar he should get a fast PC.... He's a Mac user Thru and Thru!

i've tried nearly every combination of gear mentioned above, and always end up in the same place - good ideas poorly implemented. i'm lazy, i don't have the gumption or hunger to properly arrange things. i feel the most useful item of studio gear for a person like me to obtain is a suitable collaborator. the one time i have collaborated with somebody who inhabits a similar musical headspace to me, we actually produced a track which was pretty good and nearly got a release and some remixes from somebody well known, except for circumstances that got in the way.

so if, like me, you're a bit lazy and disorganised, and a bit too self-critical, it's a good idea to find an organised person willing to help you with productions - this would also help you up those learning curves.

i meant to say a fast computer. sorry for that one.

and what in the world can you do with equiptment and "boxes" that you cannot do with a well equipped computer. you'd be hard pressed to convince me.

computers are shit. MPC2000XL.

mpc's are great - rock solid machines, no doubt. i have access to / can use one --- choose not too.

computers are good really

its all about reaktor apparantly? i just loop things and stuff.

[M H]

Originally posted by special ed
what in the world can you do with equiptment and "boxes" that you cannot do with a well equipped computer.

Loads....

And it sounds phatter I recon.....

I work in both ways though, sometimes with Logic, sometimes with my hardware.....

Sorry if I sounded Narky before...

[grobelaar]

Its just a matter of choice, the thing about computers is we expect them to do ever more things they become more and more diverse and more difficult to specialise. I mean most of the power of your PC goes into the fact that its not just built to make music, its built to run servers, to build databases, create images, write letters, the list goes on. You have to put more and more effort into specialising something that was designed to do everything - I can't be arsed with this, especially not on the lump of junk that are PCs. All systems have suffered from this, many problems encountered by computers are because we expect them to do so much these days. This is why your old C64 never crashed and your PC trips up all the time...

For me I work with computers every day of my life and then I go home and do my own design work on computers, it would be nice to have a new interest that gets me out from the glow of a crt tube and interacting and interfacing with something new. Hence the music and the kit approach. Plus as most of the software is based around kit, should give me a good grounding should I eventually starting using a computer more for music. Much like a photographer can usually find their way around photoshop easily.

Yeah got the Micro Modular, and a thick book on Analogue Sound Synthesis in the post... Picking up a Korg ER1 in a week, which just leaves a sequencer and a mixing desk, although I may just get an MPC, see how the cash goes - I'm not going crazy, its just on a hobbyist level at the mo... nearly there...

And I do have to agree with M_H, the sound does seem phatter... I remember sat round at your old place listening to stuff done in Reason, stuff done in Logic and stuff done on kit...

Have to say the stuff I've been reading about the Modular has got me really excited, still waiting for my midiman, so haven't fired up yet. but the guys who wrote that Wizoo guide are like totally into it, they're always saying things like 'wicked stuff' and 'awesome' and you aren't supposed to use words like that in guide...

Cheers for everyone's advice...

[emef]

after writing for a couple of years purely on pc, i would really like to get a nord micromodular at some point to have the best of both worlds...specially hearing how rugged MH`s NM sounds
and it would be good to use live with ableton