Terrorist Detectors For London Trains

[decadnids]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/11012006/14...on-trains.html

Another is a so-called "intelligent" CCTV system that sets off an alarm when it spots unusual behaviour.

spots unusual behaviour! - like what? someone with a back pack lurking about with dark skin?

[don___quixote]

spots unusual behavior - like clubbers catching the tube home in the morn as well probably...

[thembuzz]

looking over your shoulder, reaching into your inside coat pocket, running to catch a train...

[penciLneck]

not using a mobile phone.

[cut out]

not reading the daily mail/evening standard/metro and looking like you've just been told you've got to the end of the horoscopes to live.

[grobelaar]

Great, you just know it'll go off every five minutes and so just a pre-text for the police to arrest everyone they don't like the look of.

Oh, I'm sorry the alarm went off, better to be safe than sorry - is that your DNA, ta we'll have that for your database and we're keeping your computer equipment we just robbed from your house - bye...

[Whuffle]

I am afraid the age of "big brother" is not about to happen: it happened a while ago.

In about 2003, software became available that can recognise people's faces automatically and trace them wherever there is CCTV connected to the system, even if the subject is wearing a balaclava. This depends on having that person on file, just like with DNA or fingerprints.

I read in the Independent that road cameras are about to all be linked up so that ALL numberplates in the UK can be monitored as they move around our roads.

[decadnids]

Whuffle the face recognition stuff doesn't actually work too well - but the CCTV's are all in place for when the technology does work.

as of this yeah most cars trips will be monitored and stored for up to 2 years as the CCTV's on roads have been converted to the number plate recognition, which is a lot easier than face recognition as the UK number plates have to be of a standard font and size.


the UK has the most number of CCTV's in the whole world, this happened with out any public debate.

[Loz]

big brother is here - there are more CCTV cameras in Croydon than there are in New York City.

[kams]

On a postive note... i'm not hugely in favour of my entire life being on camera but the CCTV on the Council Estate I work on has drastically altered the amount of crime in the area over the last few years. The police figures are crazy - i'll try and dig them out... in real terms it has improved the lives of people here... the fear of mugging/burglary/street dealing has dropped away hugely - this was a massive thing, kids play out now. There is a pond in the centre of the Estate which has now been re-landscaped and is enjoyed by the elderly who live opposite, home to a heron/plenty of fish/geese (and goslings) etc lovely stuff. The money spent on doing this up would've been wasted if the camera's weren't there as historically, the pond has always become a dumping ground and a hangout for kids on the piss.

Car crime down... dealing down (well displaced - but crack dealing isn't going to go away that easily) all in all a positive thing. This CCTV system is managed and was instigated by the tenant management organisation who run the estate. There is no camera coverage of peoples front doors/cameras can't see into peoples flats etc.

In terms of its usage to convict people in court - its actually really bad. Its rare that useable evidence is gathered in from the cameras and its a big time-consuming job to pin point certain things - which is only ever possible if the cameras caught it in the first place.

[decadnids]

kams i am not disputing the fact that they might have help to reduce crime, i am more worried about how they have been stealthily put into place with out any form of public discussion, and then as if out of no-where the government reveal the new plans to monitor all car journeys, with the advent of face recognition (if and when they get it working) and the introduction of id cards, the uk will have a network of camera's already in place to be able to monitor peoples movements.

[kams]

decadnids I'm not disputing anything - feel free to worry away without the feeling that i'm arguing with you.

[decadnids]

fairy muff

[Meow]

At heathrow airport they have been taking everyone's mug shots for years, i think predominately after 9/11 or 11/9 by the calender I'm used to. When you go through to departures and the metal detector area there is one front on shot and one profile shot taken. Big bro been here for ages.

[grobelaar]

Yeah I looked into the face recognition a few years ago around 2001 haven't checked recently, but it was all just theory then...

I still think wearing sunglasses would throw it - they have to be big enough to cover the top of your cheekbones...

I bet you when it is in they'll even have all the plastic surgeons tied in so that if you get any facial surgery done - they'll take a picture of you and update the database.

[cut out]

Originally Posted by grobelaar

Great, you just know it'll go off every five minutes and so just a pre-text for the police to arrest everyone they don't like the look of.

Oh, I'm sorry the alarm went off, better to be safe than sorry - is that your DNA, ta we'll have that for your database and we're keeping your computer equipment we just robbed from your house - bye...

I've always thought that given that the government is usually so hopeless at managing data (ref; every govt IT project ever done) even if they were taking a picture of me on the john dressed up as kermit the frog, it would only ever get lost in some gigantic repository of never viewed pictures. Not that I approve of the intrusion into privacy, etc. I just can't believe anyone in govt is even vaguely interested in me and so long as i don't commit a 'proper' crime any data on me is proabably about as useful as a sack of air. Dead data all over the world these days.

i do totally agree with decadnids about the lack of debate though. the govt at the moment still automatically think they have the full support of the population.

[Meow]

Originally Posted by cut out

It would only ever get lost in some gigantic repository of never viewed pictures..

That's part of the reason the government and/or police were pushing for the 90 days to detain terrorist suspects because of the vast amount of data and imagery they collect on a daily basis

[cut out]

yeah, and the more redundant data they have:

a) the more likely they are to get it wrong
b) the more likely they are to go 'fuck it, this is going to take ages let's just nick that bloke there'
c) the more cost is passed on to the public

[Meow]

I saw on the news that local councils are launching cctv cannels available through digital and cable tv. So you can check out whats happening or not happening outside from your sofa. It's like neighbour hood watch meets big brother. But surely people who do want to vandal, steel, mug, sell drugs, pimp, assault etc. could use this to their advantage.

[cut out]

i know i do.

[darrell]

Just wait for the day they put their real plan for all this in to action

[decadnids]

Originally Posted by Meow

I saw on the news that local councils are launching cctv cannels available through digital and cable tv. So you can check out whats happening or not happening outside from your sofa. It's like neighbour hood watch meets big brother. But surely people who do want to vandal, steel, mug, sell drugs, pimp, assault etc. could use this to their advantage.

i'd watch save me having to look out our front room window.

[Meow]

The biggest series of big brother ever.. everyone is a contestant, but I wonder how the nominations would work? Probably something involving the 'red button'. And what about the evictions? Exiled? Humiliation? Even death...?

[thembuzz]

Originally Posted by cut out

i do totally agree with decadnids about the lack of debate though. the govt at the moment still automatically think they have the full support of the population.

i don't think they do. i think they actually don't care one way or the other

i know at this point in time, no matter how many images i turn up in on any central government database, it's unlikely that i'll commit any crimes that are going to warrant anyone poring through millions of pictures and thousands of hours of cctv footage in order to nail me. but that's not the issue

i'm not sure if the ethical concerns are the sole reason places like britain don't just go all big brother on our asses. certainly, no self-respecting democracy would so heavy-handedly monitor or control its citizens like, say, the ussr in its prime... but given the technology to keep a silent, beady eye over the populace, i honestly think we'll see steps in that direction (and i believe we already are). and once we've grudgingly accepted a few small infringements on our civil liberties, maybe someone could get away with introducing a few more...

We are watching you... ALL OF YOU.