I hate apple..

[anarchosyn]

Point? Who me? I have none.. They've all been taken away and drenched in the fetted sweat of german businessmen by apple computers.

Rant? Ok, if only to wax poetic about how bloody annoying it is to be shafted full force into osx if I wanted to purchase a g4 800+ today, or any other day in the future. What can I get for $2,500~ USD? A fancy box that can't run reaktor, can't run max/msp, can't run pluggo, can't run any of the multitudes of free externals for max, can only run a version of Logic that doesn't support ANY plugins (well, AUs.. but those don't count till we have more then 5), a version of Cubase SX which won't run AUs, and zero plugins of any real value (i.e. waves, tc, steinburg-waldorf, etc).

Bah.. I'm going back to banging sticks on trashcan lids.... . . . .


[note: for those that don't know, 1) AUs are the new osx plugin format. Yes, this means that plugins will be os related, not program specific, and steinburg looses their stranglehold on the plugin market if AUs catch on. This is a good thing, but the ink is still fresh on the AU specifications, and the SDK hasn't been around that long either, so the market is pretty much bare.

AND

2) Apple has fixed it so newer machines can not boot into os 9, even if you wanted to, specifically due to the low market responce to osx. I knew that was happening soon, but figured I had the ability to work around it a bit.. at least with a 800 or 867 cpu.. assumptions.. assumptions].

Originally posted by anarchosyn
Bah.. I'm going back to banging sticks on trashcan lids.... . . . .

a couple of minutes ago I told a friend (an audio software developer) I'm going to learn playing the digeridoo, these things don't crash (but according to him they are known to crack sometimes, which is no good either...)

My Maxtor HD is dying on me, the second in 6 months time....

I hate computers period.

[thesnailsshow]

Damn man !!! that really sounds very very bad !!!
Anyway, use on the mac everything that can't be used on PC, like Super-collider.
Reaktor shouldn't be a problem, I think NI is going to launch a OSX version Soon.
Well man, I really can't say anything else !! C Ya around !

[c s]

Originally posted by anarchosyn

AND
2) Apple has fixed it so newer machines can not boot into os 9, even if you wanted to, specifically due to the low market responce to osx. I knew that was happening soon

if that's true, it's the last (not the first) proof they're not better than m$. but as pc users have learned to bypass restrictions and disable 'features' i guess the mac users will now (have to) do the same now then. as long as the restriction is not implemented into the hardware, there's always a way and the hack will come quick.

btw, have you heard of tcpa ?

[anarchosyn]

Heh.. thanx guys.

I just needed to vent..

CS - although I'm sure you don't actually doubt me, here is the first link I could dig up on apples nasty decision:
http://australianit.news.com.au/arti...-15321,00.html

copy'n paste might be the quickest way around a broken link.

It really sucks. What actually prompted the post though was a tele conversation I had with my local mac distro store that informed me that ALL the g4s in stock were "fixed" already, and they didn't have any old models laying around that would allow freedom of choice.

All in all, OS X seems to kick OS 9.1's ass in stability and speed, but nothing I want to use (especially wave plugins) have been ported yet.

*shrug*... Ohh well..

[M H]

is there no way of just getting hold of a copy of OS 9, wiping your hard drive and installing it, or is it not as simple as this?

Sad to see Apple taking this line........

[anarchosyn]

M H, if only it were so simple..

I'm not saying they are only selling them with OS X now, I'm saying the machines can only physically boot with OS X.. They have configured the hardware to not respond to anything but that, or so I was informed when I called to find out about all this earlier today (called a apple certified dealer here in portland).

Due to the half ass responce to the new system, they felt they needed to do this inorder to herd people towards the new platform. Bad move, imho, but not much I can do but grit my teeth and take it (or buy a used, older machine).

Ohh well.. In 3-7 years it should be well supported (*sic?*)

The real irony here is that I haven't been following any of this OSX shite until recently. I've been planning on buying a mac for max-msp / audio stuff since the late 90s; long before os 9 even. I finally flipped the coin in my head and decided to pick one up, and then discovered my timing couldn't be any worse. If I wasn't getting the Mac for the stability and 'change of pace' atmospher, there really wouldn't be any reason to purchase one for max/msp over the PC version. Neither the PC or OSX versions are out, and neither can make use of the mound of third party externals which exist for the older system (i.e. no Nato, Lobjects, Tap.Tools, etc).


Ohh, did I mention that Apple, which owns Emagic, recently convinced them to discontinue support for VST, and other plugins, allowing only the new, and relatively underdeveloped, Audio Unit format to take precedence? I know I did, but I wanted to bitch about that one more time (I was planning on switching from PC cubase to Mac Logic, but they lost me with that shitty decision. Removing features is never a benefit). Yes, this means that you can not use ANY plugins AT ALL that are not in the new AU format.

Sure, some bright kid might (**might***) make a wrapper for carbonized VST plugins, but till then.. well..


I hate cubase even more then apple, and it looks like they will be the recipients of my money (for the first time ;).

Emagic discontinuing vst support? so what's new? they never fully implemented it anyway. I can tell you this AU is a real pain in the ass for programmers.... argh I don't have to repeat your arguments, you've made them abundantly clear

I'm putting my money on the max windows version, not going to buy a mac just for that one program.

I hate cubase even more then apple, and it looks like they will be the recipients of my money (for the first time

You mean Pinnacle

[Ruben A]

Atari rules!

[thesnailsshow]

I haven't read that the new apple computers can only boot into OSX, that really really sucks !!!!
Why don't you try installing Linux ?? maybe, if you can install linux as the primary OS you can install OS9 from there.
Try it !! you won't lose anything !!!

hey people
I bought a G4 (titanium867) a month ago and boot with the 9.2 OS everyday,
never used X for audio, run all the apps you mentioned (MAX,PLUGGO,LOGIC,SC2,CUBASE,R EAKTOR,METASYNTH) I know it will take a while
before i can switch to X for audio.I know there are a few issues of disk format and
utilities like Norton's,you have to be careful to get the latest version.
I don't know if you were talking about even more recent machines than mine or if you meant booting from a CD OS for repair purposes. I even had the disagreement of booting from an old norton utils(OS 9.....)and be able to "repair, defrag,ETC" my
OSX formatted disk in which it found multiple errors, of course because it viewed the
"Unix /OSX" things like the machine identity as such.
I had to reformat .
OSX first . Then install the 9.2. Boot in 9.2.
Well, it is a bit of space's waste, but you have to give new systems a try someday...
I heard of people only install 9 OS in similar machines.Didn't myself as it is not possible with the CD APPLE PROVIDES WITH THE NEW MACHINES.
Let me add that i do not run Classic, but OS9.2.
Up to now , no problem at all.

Sonically.

[anarchosyn]

I don't know if you were talking about even more recent machines than mine

I am.

Thanks for the words though. I'll try it regardless when I get my mac, but according to apple, it shouldn't work.

[FORMAT]

From what I've heard, the OS X-only policy only applies to newly introduced machines, e.g. the ones presented tomorrow at MWorld - are you really sure about the current models booting os X only??

That would indeed suck --- though a few of their machines, such as the high-end Powermac, will continue to be available with OS9.


cheers,
format

[lucid rinehead]

i'm not sure if its true that you won't be able to run 9... not for a while yet anyway. they were going to do something like that, although i'm not sure whether 9 physically wouldn't run or just wasn't supplied. bad news if it won't run, unless it gives some serious advantages elsewhere.

anyway, the publishers were pissed off because there is no os x quark xpress yet so apple has postponed it at least until quark have got their finger out of their bum.

and reaktor for x is due within the next couple of months i think.

[FORMAT]

OH well... new Powerbooks have arrived --- and I reckon that that's the end of THAT..... (OS9)...
format

[anarchosyn]

Ohh well.. I've resigned myself to an OSX machine, since I plan to keep expanding my system with newer and newer software (and why not do a clean install of the "modern" platform then deal with expensive upgrades in the near future, eh?)..



Thanx for the thoughts and suggestions..


www.macintouch.com
"Also starting today, Jobs announced, all new Macs will be incapable
of booting into Mac OS 9."

unfortunately, apple has to do what it has to do to move on. but osx is a good environment, even though it still needs a lot of development from our favorite programmers. but like any other company they need to move on, it's just sad that they had to use a forceful method in doing so. i personally think sticking with mac is a good idea. osx is very stable (at least from what i've seen as i haven't taxed it too heavily). and if apple is really pushing their own AU system and MIDI, then maybe things will all work much more smoothly together. it's just a waiting game right now for it all to come out.

[c s]

Originally posted by piscaries
unfortunately, apple has to do what it has to do [...] like any other company they need to move on [...] i personally think sticking with mac is a good idea.

only the myths suffer ! yeah, that's the point - it's just a company like every other. i was never anti-mac, just didn't like the glorification from parts of the mac community. pros and cons are everywhere.