which futur for music distribution ?

[humeka]

reading the topic left by marcel concerning the efa bankrupt, i ask myself about the futur for music distribution.
are we assisting to the end of it ? is it the end of all these lovely little record shops ? i do not want to buy my disks on virgin superstores ! i don't wanna give money (or the less possible) to the major companies to help them to defenitly destroy creativity, replaced by commercial behaviour.
is internet the only solution ? if so, we should go for it quickly before the majors takes the whole market...
and here's a special shout to all those f***ing idiots who helped this happened cause of massive illegal downloads !!!!

[emef]

there will always be a spooky little freak scene, dont worry, people might make fuck all money out of it but it will be there for those that want it.
and it wont involve hmv/virgin/bmg etc.
the majors are too big and slow to have any real control of the weirdos.
if you do what you want to do cos you want to do it, not cos there is some quids in it, the majors cant rule you.

[M H]

Well, you've still got Possible, Intergroove and Neuton in Germany, Triple Vision and NEWS in Belgium, Just Music, Veto, Black Hole and Intergroove in the UK, toolbox in france, the list goes on and on... So I wouldn't say it's dead... Just changing, the best thing we can do is learn from the mistakes that have been made in the past..

[M H]

Oh, and buying records also helps I recon....

[Lady E]

yes it will be ok!
change is good.

[marcin]

someone must stop illegal downloads! it's is the reason why music market goes seriously down. i have been realy suprised that soulseek and all this kind of internet networks weren't that criticize by members on the erutufon board. some of you say that you don't have turntables and most of releases are vinyl only, so you must download from soulseek?!! i think you forget about legal companies who sell legal mp3 over internet. There's no reason, which allow you to stole music. NEVER. i've had to stop my label and probably much more small labels will do the same in very near future. thank you very much and keep downloading for free and asking for promos...

[Lady E]

have to agree with marcin to a certain extent there...but the amount of music people do download, they couldnt feasibly buy.

i never bought music when i was a teenager just taped everything so in someways is it really that different? i guess it must be because of what is actually happening in the industry now.

[emef]

Originally posted by marcin
someone must stop illegal downloads! it's is the reason why music market goes seriously down. i have been realy suprised that soulseek and all this kind of internet networks weren't that criticize by members on the erutufon board.

i dont know, i have bought lots of cds in the last year by artists i wouldn`t have had any idea who they were if i hadn`t trawled through peoples soulseek folders.
a lot of stuff i download gets deleted pretty quick cos its rubbish or it doesn`t stand up to prolonged plays, but a core of new stuff i end up buying cos i love the albums so much i need to have the actual cd.
i was quite taken with downloading music when i got broadband but in the last couple of months that old music coveting thing has got me again.
and i dont think you can really call yourself a fan of a band if you only have downloaded copies of their lps.
theres not much pleasure in having a shelf full of ripped cdrs

i`m talkin about guitar-y music here btw not techno/electro, i need that stuff on vinyl, great to download dj and live sets of soulseek though.

[Loz]

I think the industry as a whole has overplayed the downloads thing pushing the music market down. The fact of the matter is that music sales have been declining for years, even before most people had heard of Napster or Soulseek. That's more to do with the lack of choice when it comes to so-called 'mainstream' music, with all major record companies 'cashing in' or the latest bandwagon, saturating the market with dozens of the same sounding bands or artists. You only have to look at the boyband craze or before that the Britpop explosion to see that.

An interesting social study a year or so back reported that in areas where there was a lot of music downloading going on, such as around universities and colleges, singles sales were way down, but album sales were up, compared with the rest of the country.

This ties in with how I use downloaded music. I download stuff, or people send me stuff, to try it out. I like to listen to something, if I don't like it, it gets removed from my hard drive, if I do like it, then 99% of the time, I'll seek out the release, be it on the album (preferably) or on single.

But with music downloads, I think they probably are killing the singles market, which again has been in decline. People will download 2 good tracks off a mediocre album, and not bother buying the singles. However, if you have 12 good tracks on an album, people are far more likely to buy the album.

Another recent study said that most of the losses in the industry that can be equated to music downloading was to the major record companies. The study claimed that independant or small-time record companies and struggling artists sales remained pretty static throughout the period where all record sales were in decline.

Whether or not this is due to the availability of those songs, or as I'd like to hope, a certain loyalty to those small labels and artists, remains to be seen.

[Loz]

Originally posted by emef

yourself a fan of a band if you only have downloaded copies of their lps.
theres not much pleasure in having a shelf full of ripped cdrs

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[emef]

i keep seeing programmes talking about how singles sales are in the toilet but lp sales have gone up.
so if downloading doesn`t seem to be affecting sales of lps what is the problem?
cd singles are a bit rubbish anyway.

[Loz]

I like some singles, but only because of bsides.

As Peter Buck describes them:

"a closet of failed experiments, badly written songs, drunkern jokes, and occasionally, a worthwhile song that doesn't fit the feel of an album."

and thesedays.. remixes and live versions too.

[Andreas]

Originally posted by emef
there will always be a spooky little freak scene, dont worry, people might make fuck all money out of it but it will be there for those that want it.
and it wont involve hmv/virgin/bmg etc.
the majors are too big and slow to have any real control of the weirdos.
if you do what you want to do cos you want to do it, not cos there is some quids in it, the majors cant rule you.


word up!

[wheezer]

The major labels are money-grubbing swindlers, they have been successfully convicted for price-fixing, they have consistently raised prices on their products despite the cost of manufacturing having gone down, despite the fact that the average wage of a person has been going down.

Their artist policy is similar to the slash-n-burn style of agriculture, and most of them have direct ties to the weapons industry.

They have an excellent track record of just blindly opposing any new technology that comes out on the market, much like the major movie studios, and yet when they say "mp3s and cd-burning is hurting our sales", or even better, "copy kills music", people just blindly lap it up.

[M H]

I don't think downloads are the problem when it comes to electronic music, it's just the case of the explosion of electronic music is over and we're currently experiencing the backlash. Guitars are selling more than Technics decks now, and on top of that we're suffering because of the fact that 5 years ago certain distributors were giving out P+D deals to any tom dick or harry, and it flooded the market with a lot of shite music, which soon proved to be the said Distributors demise... This scene is too small to be damaged by downloads, in fact this scene is probably promoted more by free downloads.. I mean if something is really good, you're not going to be happy with a shitty 64kbps mp3 are you? you're going to want the real thing. I think this time will pass, and will inevitably lead to a more stable situation...

[mr franks]

i like to read the liner notes.

[marcin]

Mark, most people will be happy even with shitty mp3 as long as it's for free.
Unfortunately people don't care much about having real thing.
Main priority is to spent as less money as possible and best option is
to spent nothing. Actualy downloads are problem even for electronic music.
Most people I speak to know artist and got records only from soulseek. If something wasn't available over there, they have no idea it was released. It became realy strange.
I feel that most of them forgot that there is something like real music market, where you go to shop and buy record. Every kind of music exist mostly because of home listeners (definitely not dj's),and problem is that most electronic music home listeners stoped buying records because they have all for free from net. World should be happy that nobody invented virtual food yet :)

[mr franks]

Originally posted by marcin
Mark, most people will be happy even with shitty mp3 as long as it's for free.
Unfortunately people don't care much about having real thing.


i always want the real thing, i like the packaging, liner notes, the whole thing, as emef wrote in this thread, a shelf full of ripped cd's is not my bag. I think many people think this way.

[wheezer]

marcin ask yourself if these people really would've bought this stuff if they had no other choice. my gut feeling tells me "no".

[marcel]

Originally posted by marcin
Mark, most people will be happy even with shitty mp3 as long as it's for free.
Unfortunately people don't care much about having real thing.
Main priority is to spent as less money as possible and best option is
to spent nothing. Actualy downloads are problem even for electronic music.
Most people I speak to know artist and got records only from soulseek. If something wasn't available over there, they have no idea it was released. It became realy strange.
I feel that most of them forgot that there is something like real music market, where you go to shop and buy record. Every kind of music exist mostly because of home listeners (definitely not dj's),and problem is that most electronic music home listeners stoped buying records because they have all for free from net.
have to agree here. the problem is that the people liking the 'real thing' are a minority, a quite small minority. and the most of us here are belonging to it, so this discussion is everytime strongly biased with a (calculated) optimism towards human mankind.

we could move on and talk about software for free(no, im not talking about microsoft!). there's the same problem, people tend to think its stealing is okay as long as it is digital. noone gets hurt, eh.
im not talking about downloading tracks you cant find anymore to buy, or single top10hits you get used to like, or old movies, or the latest windowsversion. im talking about the "hooray internet, it's all for free! anarchy! im a punk!"-24/7downloader-kind of guys. they are highly annoying

[marcel]

Originally posted by wheezer
marcin ask yourself if these people really would've bought this stuff if they had no other choice. my gut feeling tells me "no".
5% of the 1000tracks downloaded per month i'd say. yes, they would buy if they won't have an option

[christtjj]

in my opinion,
the the reason that many distributors are going down, and bringing small indie labels down with them, deals more with the fact that the major label music industry and less to do with people downloading free and/or stolen music.

many of the major distributors deal with both the majors and the indie record labels. just based on the numbers, the majors have way more money invested in distributors. so if a major record label, whose projected sales (note that these are not actual sales) aren't doing as well as they would like, they may pull support for a record, even if the record was still turning a profit. this purely financial behavior by the "majors" has a trickle down effect on everyone else in the music world.

long story short: the majors failing is causing everyone else to fail. not due to lack of sales on the indie's part, but simply because the majors are the economic driving force of the music market.

my two cents at least...

[jukka]

Originally posted by marcel
im talking about the "hooray internet, it's all for free! anarchy! im a punk!"-24/7downloader-kind of guys. they are highly annoying

the WWW has nothing to do with punk at all !

i am often fucked about the fact that i just can't afford to buy all the stuff i'd like to buy....
i also gotta say that people who really like/love music will keep on buying records/cd's

[marcel]

Originally posted by jukka
the WWW has nothing to do with punk at all !

i myself never said that www is punk! that was a quote. sort of

[bitch one]

Originally posted by marcel
"hooray internet, it's all for free! anarchy! im a punk!"-24/7downloader-kind of guys. they are highly annoying

do you still think they are annoying when they pay to see you live and pogo down the front?

[Yer_Maw]

i found that i missed buying records. the thrill of the shop, listening choosing. the whole buying experience. so i started buying more records again. and a lot of my mates feel the same.

i download constantly but.

[marcel]

Originally posted by bitch one
do you still think they are annoying when they pay to see you live and pogo down the front?
are you trying to say people downloading everything from one artist and not buying anything from him can still call themselves fans then they buy a ticket and go to a concert by him once a year?..
they even won't pay for a ticket if they could download it somethere btw

and again, i'm not contra p2p. i just think a lot of people highly abuse it by stoping to buy anything anymore that they can get via p2p(and perversly still call themselves somehow idealistic)

[stype]

i've heard of studies about people, who are copying music, regarding the "good ol' times" of tapes until the quite perfectional clone-copies we got nowadays. and these people are in fact the ones, who spend most money for music anyway. they "only" intend to collect almost everything of the music they like - so there's a lot of stuff, who will be paid, if one bought it, which is actually impossible due to the limited amount of money.

as for me, i could say, that i spent way too much money for music in the past six years (using ssk at the same time, which actually makes me buy more i ever wanted), since i like to support my favorite artists or labels - and i'll surely continue "wasting" my money for records i always wanted to have or which fit into my preferences.

well, what about the future of distribution?
depends on the technological progress. i haven't found something with the feeling of vinyl during spinning yet, except the last traktor-finalscratch, which runs quite stable and it's almost like dj-ing with "real" vinyl. so i think, that vinyl won't be dead in the next four or five years.
for the mp3-issue (customers: dj's and just-listeners), solutions like "bleep.com" seem to be a proper approach towards what a future music market could look like.

nobody knows really, since the times are changing rapidly at the moment - i'll continue feeding my mk2's with new pvc :)

[marcin]

wheezer - where are not living in punk world dude. we shouldn't ask if you hadn't stolen, you would buy it. if someone stole new car, probably for sure he wouldn't buy it. but hey is it correct? please back to the reality. it should be very clear: illegal downloading is fucking bad. if you can't afford something, you can't have it. i dream about many things, but can't afford most of them. does it mean i should get them in illegal way?

[marcel]

to come back to the question of this thread(btw the first french member i see here! hello:)):
i would really love to see that someone establish a subscription-system for downloading music. because i deeply believe that this is the best possible way to go.
imagine paying maybe 14.95€ per month and being able to download as many music in high quality as you want..:D hach would be nice, wouldnt it

[jukka]

i would never pay for mp'3......just because i don't like mp'3 much.
i'll (as mentioned therefore( always keep on buying cd's !!
i am with mr. franks and emef there, i like the packaging, artwork and all that stuff.....

mp'3s and self burnt cdr are having this cold feeling to me (its okay for livesets and mixes though).....i like it to go and buy or receive a new cd and put it in my cd player, having a listen to while looking at the art work...reading informations on it..

[bitch one]

Originally posted by marcel

are you trying to say people downloading everything from one artist and not buying anything from him can still call themselves fans then they buy a ticket and go to a concert by him once a year?..


no, i was saying, many artists can still make a fair bit of money by playing gigs (a fuckin shitpile if they are the rolling stones...)


@ marcin. this month i have spent probably 100 pounds on music, a fair proportion of my income. i have probably downloaded (or 'stolen' in your terms) the same amount of music. next month i will probably spend 100 pounds on music. and i will probably 'steal' the same amount of music again. are you suggesting that if i wasn't 'stealing' any music, i would spend 200 pounds a month on music? because i couldn't afford to do that.

i think the bigger music industry needs to fight back like the dvd industry has by providing cool extras when you buy..

(we vinyl lovers already have 'extras' cos we get the big artwork, the lovely lovely vinyl smell, the locked grooves, etc)

[wheezer]

Originally posted by marcin
wheezer - where are not living in punk world dude. we shouldn't ask if you hadn't stolen, you would buy it. if someone stole new car, probably for sure he wouldn't buy it. but hey is it correct? please back to the reality. it should be very clear: illegal downloading is fucking bad. if you can't afford something, you can't have it. i dream about many things, but can't afford most of them. does it mean i should get them in illegal way?

again I disagree. I live in finland, and if it weren't for those illegal downloads, I'd have no fucking clue what's going on musicwise in the world. to me, illegal downloading is anything but bad. if something is good, I then make the effort to order it from somewhere online, because a couple of mp3s on hdd or even as a burned cd don't satisfy me, even though I usually can't spot the difference in audio quality.

it's much too easy to just say "downloading is illegal", this is a grey area at best, and since this topic is being actively used by megacorps the world around to change legislature to further decrease our rights as consumers, citizens, heck people, it's doubly bad to argue this way.

[Loz]

no matter what your opinion on downloading is, you have to realise that the ways in which record companies are fighting back is far worse.

for example, I cannot play a number of my CDs on my computer, without using a "compressed audio file".. actually compressed to 96kbs, which is frankly just above radio quality. Also, a couple of my CDs won't play on the CD player in my car at all.

The stupid thing is, it's piss easy to copy these CDs, and rip mp3s off the copies. the copies also play in my car no problems.

it's a total disgrace how the record companies are treating their consumers with such contempt that they are acting as if we are all thieves, and we're all going to rip mp3s and distribute them online (I rip mp3s just because I'm lazy, and if all my music is on my PC, it's easy to play)

[M H]

I think P+D deals has a lot to do with falling sales within our scene, if you run a label and you arn't footing the bill, you're not going to be quite as discerning as to what you put out, I've found this myself, we footed the bill for our label and it makes us think very carefully about what we're going to put out... Thing is, there's so many people wanting to get their music out, and not neccesarily all of it is good enough to be getting out, but some distributors got greedy thinking more titles in stock=more $$$ no matter what the quality.. The demise of certain distributors (Altho not neccesarily EFA) Proves the point.. this is why this kind of situation has come about, nothing to do with the fact that people can download stuff.. Bear in mind not everyone (Me included) has access to a fast internet connection.. Also there's a lot less people into techno, along with a lot of "Dance" and electronic music these days, we're going through a Rock phase, Kids are buying guitars and not technics and records... The "Downloads" argument is one perpetuated by the Majors and the RIAA to justify ridiculous lawsuites, and to assure the shareholders that it's not actually their fault (I.E. by putting out a steaming pile of toss) that they're not making any money, total kneejerk reaction....
The other thing is you're never going to stop people downloading stuff, no matter how damaging it is to the industry, so you're better off finding ways to work around it that just simply telling people not to download stuff....

[marcin]

@bitch one. i don't suggest anything. great you bought music for such big amount of money, but for me it doesn't allow you to download same amount of music for free. if I spent 1000 pounds for instrument, should I steal another one worth the same? music is product and people should pay for it because someone must pay for manufacturing, studio time, artworks etc. underground artists and labels should be specialy supported.
@wheezer. it has more to do with record shops quality. perhaps consumer needs much better (usualy longer) previews of tracks before he decides to buy it. but it's total easy to say that downloading is illegal because simply IT IS. you are living in world of law and every track is copyrighted, which means you have to pay for it. couldn't be simplier.
Anyway I can understand people don't have money or download to have better view what to buy, but it seems that most of you feel that downloading is 100% correct.

[M H]

Marcin, what are your views on Home taping? What about sampling? Where do you draw the line?

[M H]

And what about videoing films off the TV? That's illegal too...

[marcin]

yes most of us do this. also I download from time to time illegal mp3. but I will never say it's correct or that I am allowed to do this because I don't have money. you see the point?

[Andreas]

Originally posted by M H
And what about videoing films off the TV? That's illegal too...

good point.

and who are producing these recording devices anyway? sony etc

they are all fucking up themselves...

[marcin]

also my feelings aren't addressed to the people like bitch one or wheezer. because they at least buys records from time to time. but there are hundred of kids who only download and will never buy record at shop. hmmm and even it isn't that bad. bigger problem is that kids don't see anything wrong doing it. maybe people need some morality education.

[Loz]

Originally posted by Andreas
and who are producing these recording devices anyway? sony etc

Sony Music and Sony Electronics are not strictly the same company. The Sony name is more of an Umbrella company. The different companies within that rarely talk to each other.

I mean, if Sony Music put protection on their CDs so you can't make mp3s out of them, then Sony Electronics sell less mp3 players.

[wheezer]

Originally posted by marcin
also my feelings aren't addressed to the people like bitch one or wheezer. because they at least buys records from time to time. but there are hundred of kids who only download and will never buy record at shop. hmmm and even it isn't that bad. bigger problem is that kids don't see anything wrong doing it. maybe people need some morality education.

coming back to the music we are speaking about, techno - it could be argued that a lot of the techno 12" singles that get put out don't have that much home-listening value, they're dj tools. as m h pointed out, techno has perhaps worn out some of its novelty value, hence a decline in record sales.

a lot of the techno tunes you hear at parties are pretty disposable, they have a certain lifespan in the clubscene, then they get discarded - sure there's exceptions, but it doesn't surprise me that much that in somewhat slimmer times, with a waning interest in this music, some labels are treading high water.

downloading and trading mp3s is a subscene of the internet, and I think there's a lot more to it than just wanting to save cash - soulseek is a social hub for music enthusiasts, and other pirate scenes I have encountered work in similar ways - people trade files and hang out, often the actual content of the files is just a pretense. I know people that have 0.5 tb of music or software or videos, and I don't consider this a real threat to public consumption of these products on a commercial basis, I do think that the riaa and mpaa are turning into major hindrances for most artists and consumers alike.

[goone]

slsk is good for the industry IMO
even tho i dont use it
i just buy records
but if i had slsk id be checking out more stuff and buying more records

people who buy records arent gonna stop because of slsk

others who dont buy records dont matter
if anything they are in with a chance of getting into this
music deeper and then starting to buy records themselves

as for cd sales , theyre probably not getting a fair deal
but fuck cds i personally would not give a rats arse
if cds disappeared off the universe

[Hagbard]

Well I run a new record label, our first release has been out 2 weeks now and is selling ok.

I also use slsk a lot.

From my point of view if people all over the world can read a review online of our release, and then check it out on slsk straight away.. (which they can and already are) well thats a very powerful form of distribution in itself.

However I am not publishing music to eat or pay the rent.
Maybe when I'm in massive debt or I can't afford to buy my third wife a solid gold ferrari i'll get annoyed.. I just don't know yet.

Bleep.com is an excellent shop/resource.
Hats off to Warp for that, they've really made an intelligent and informed response to the situation, and they should be supported.

[humeka]

if internet helps you find more clients, it's ok. but if it helps you bankrupt because of numerous illegal copies, it's...

[mlexicon]

i use mp3s in 3 different ways

1-sampling bits of audio of the oddest genres to make new music
2- live mixes of my fav djs- i hate studio mixes...i like hearing them slightly fuck up or hearing the ppl cheer
3- i use mp3s to listen to some new artists that im unaware of and then ill go buy the vinyl if i like it enough

[humeka]

if people using illegal files could sometime consider that they private companies from usefull incomes... commercial behaviour is not necessarely bad : it helps companies into investments, resulting in an always bigger promotional/technological field (for softwares societies), just for our pleasure... and their incomes !
i'm not selling for the majors (i hate them), but i'm speaking of those labels who need buyers to live !

[wheezer]

how is a label that releases eps limited to, say 1000 copies, supposed to promote itself worldwide? what is a good way to make people aware of your music if you're just starting out, in your opinion?

[KaOz]

illegal music is good...music should be free

[CV]

Originally posted by KaOz
illegal music is good...music should be free

yeah , great.

that's software , not music.

you try and make a living as a musician.

illegal music is not healthy for musicians , or for the continued production of music. Thats pretty obvious KaOz.

[aleks]

all the artists should get a "real" job, so there is no need to worry about money etc. ;)

[KaOz]

yep

[KaOz]

its hard to find good music in a world with tons of labels and musicians releasin with 100 aliases... ill always check the stuff i want as mp3 first.. then i get hands on it at the stores... thats efficient...i give a fuck how other ppl handle that....

and if i lok at thing like slsk... its a good community.. i meet alot friends there and a artists can communicate over it... ( well and theres also a slsk label / netlabel )

Netlabels r a good thing...

and dont come with the argument "u can go to the store and listen to it"...

thats not my taste... i have to hear a release alot to get into it...not only a few seconds at a record store with the idea to buy some new records... and gettin tired of the tunes after 5 times at home.......

i think the inet did alot for artists... its easier to make stuff public ( from music, to gfx, to film ) ...


its also ok to earn money with art u do...
but common man.. in this genre the most ppl like vinyls... i cant believe that the techno/idm etc community lost alot money in the last years...

[bitch one]

isn't illegal downloading fantastic promotion tho? the music is reaching a much greater number of people than it would have before we had file sharing. therefore many people who would never have bought it will now hear it. i don't think the economics is as simple as each illegal download=one unit's worth of lost royalties, because that doesn't take into account the increased exposure, which is a much longer term thing and hard to measure the effect of. this will obviously vary for different artsits.

there are other factors involved in declining sales of undaground records too - for example, the trendiness of decks, the vast amount of music available in any genre, the fact that everyone wants novelty, people grow up and stop listening to bleeps, etc etc...it's easy to blame declining sales on this one big bogeyman called illegal downloads, but i don't think it's that simple. when a band like eg franz ferdinand gets big they still get rich - and i bet if you measured the number of illegal downloads of their tracks it would be enormous. but that just adds to their popularity.

[Lady E]

Originally posted by KaOz

its also ok to earn money with art u do...
but common man.. in this genre the most ppl like vinyls... i cant believe that the techno/idm etc community lost alot money in the last years...



loads of people on here never buy vinyl.

vinyl doesnt sell anything like as much as CDs...

[Lady E]

i think most people probably do buy records and download stuff as well, and thats fair enough. the extreme of someone who only ever downloads illegal mp3s is probably not that common and might not have ever bought music anyway. they would tape all their mates' stuff.

MH is right to a certain extent about P+D deals but in our case we just could not afford to manufacture ourselves...i mean, raw digits cost a fucking FORTUNE to manufacture.

[goone]

too much music pressed on vinyl is shit

you have to tredge thru loads of shit techno to find good stuff

[carrot ram]

Urr..don't know if I'm an anomaly here but the more downloaded music I hear the more rekkids I buy...

[Marolo]

No, I don't think you're an anomaly. I buy shit loads of vinyl and CD and a big proportion of it is from stuff I have heard on the net...

[actionjetzon]

Originally posted by cristian


yeah , great.

that's software , not music.

you try and make a living as a musician.

illegal music is not healthy for musicians , or for the continued production of music. Thats pretty obvious KaOz.


yepp, i´m really with you. music never should be free. it could be a bit cheaper though, everything is getting more and more expensive...but thats another story

@kaoz
don´t you learn tone engineering? how do you want to earn money in the future if music would be free?
Or are you doing that just for you, without steppin your feet into this business?

art should be paid!

[Loz]

the way the music industry is angled is all screwed

more money should go to the artist, and less to the label. it should also be that the artist owns the recordings, not as in a lot of cases, the label, much like the book industry is.

that's the main problem with it all, the musician doesn't get nearly enough money for what they do as it is

[emef]

i think the record shops should take a bigger cut of the profits, 50% just isn`t high enough, after all they take all the risks, specially when stuff is on sale or return.

there is no sarcasm emoicon is there?

[Loz]

it's interesting, go to HMV, a CD will cost you what, 16 quid now?

my local record ship, nice family run indie place, charges 10.99, and still makes a good enough profit that they never have to worry about paying bills.

and you can't tell me that HMV don't get their records from the suppliers cheaper because of bulk deals.

goes to show what money-grabbing bastards big name shops are

[KaOz]

Originally posted by goone
too much music pressed on vinyl is shit

you have to tredge thru loads of shit


techno to find good stuff

word

[KaOz]

Originally posted by actionjetzon




@kaoz
don´t you learn tone engineering? how do you want to earn money in the future if music would be free?
Or are you doing that just for you, without steppin your feet into this business?

art should be paid!


yes , but i never do something for other people... i want to create hardware and go the liveway..... not engineering for other people.... its ok but not my taste.
im into stuff like wavefieldsynthesis and stuff... not the typical engineer at a studio...im interessted in surround and doin orchstra engineering. live

netlabels rule...

cool to get hands on reelase as mp3 ( and maybe the whole samples to do just for fun remixes )

[KaOz]

Originally posted by Loz
the way the music industry is angled is all screwed

more money should go to the artist, and less to the label. it should also be that the artist owns the recordings, not as in a lot of cases, the label, much like the book industry is.

that's the main problem with it all, the musician doesn't get nearly enough money for what they do as it is


THATS EXACTLY what i mean.. fuck all the distributions.. if u want to support a artist.. then send him a check

[aleks]

so do people buy music to support the artist?

[KaOz]

i think not.. just to feed the hungry ghost

[Lady E]

Originally posted by emef
i think the record shops should take a bigger cut of the profits, 50% just isn`t high enough, after all they take all the risks, specially when stuff is on sale or return.

there is no sarcasm emoicon is there?

agreed. we have to do shit deals to get our stuff into hmv or whatever as well so they get it cheaper than everywhere esle...

they buy things for £6 then charge £15. its more than 50%. its robbery. if you get a rack where they display your stuff you have to pay, if you are on a listening post you pay...so you do all that and then if they dont sell you get returns.

i think shops like HMv etc should buy stock outright. keep their orders low and regular. i understand little indies cant do this. but it sure would make sense if everyone could.

[Loz]

the people who run my local indie store always buy their stock outright. if they don't sell it, then it remains in the shop until they do.

they got very pissed off at Universal music recently, because over the space of a few months, they rereleased Elton John's album 3 different times, with different extras. They refused to buy the new ones in, as Universal wouldn't take the old ones back.

[KaOz]

Loz yeah.. thats stupid... i hate this kind of release and makin bucks... the same release... always with another cover and a bit remastered... then sell it again after a while to hold the fans....

[goone]

Originally posted by Loz
the people who run my local indie store always buy their stock outright. if they don't sell it, then it remains in the shop until they do.

they got very pissed off at Universal music recently, because over the space of a few months, they rereleased Elton John's album 3 different times, with different extras. They refused to buy the new ones in, as Universal wouldn't take the old ones back.

theres a lesson in here to be learned somewhere
i just havent figured out what it is yet!

:)

[grobelaar]

I have a big long diatribe about this, but no one will read it…

It’s all shit, don’t start a record label, you’ll lose loads of money – no seriously its rubbish…

Me cynical – nah, just trying to cut down the competition…

I think people in all level of music business have just got to get to grip with the way the market works, post mp3/broadband etc etc. I must say I’m really excited about the Warp mp3 store – I’d be interested to see how it goes. I mean since Xmas I think lots of mp3 players have been sold of all varieties and they’ll be more and more people wanting music in this format – I don’t honestly think that everyone is going to be downloading of P2P – its too inconvenient for starters. Perhaps underground/independent music is more susceptible to suffering from piracy as their margins are so slim.

I’ve long been a believer that more should be done to get music to your average techno punter – you know everyone isn’t a dj and lots of people got to techno parties and have no interest in buying decks – what do they do for music – download mixes and tracks off Soulseek and buy the occasional mix album – I mean sure they’re stealing the tracks on vinyl, but they don’t have record players so who could really blame them – then of course its all too easy to just download the commercial mix, or not even bother, because they have a load of mixes recorded in clubs.

But I think the key is making your music available in these new formats – I mean many labels must have back catalogues, why not get them on an on-line mp3 store – yeah I’m sure these are available on P2P. But there’s not much cost in making them available to buy, where a small charge guarantees the user gets a download of the good and proper digital versions and peace of mind that they are supporting their labels and artists.

Anyone know how to set up an mp3 store?

[Lady E]

we will be doing our back catalogue on an mp3 store in some way shape or form this year. have a few options, would love to do bleep.com but we will have to see what they think about that.

[Loz]

if you do do the mp3 thing, not sure who you'd get to encode them, but I'd strongly suggest using variable birate. it means that it changes it's compression 'on the fly' so where you'd normally lose quality, it compensates by lowering the compression, so you end up losing very little quality.

[WON'T DO IT]

Personally, I don't feel i actually own a piece of music unless i have it on vinyl. I have many tunes on CD and a few on cassette and mp3 but if somebody asked me if i owned said pieces of music i would answer instincively NO but i'm looking for them... I'm sure there are others like me , for which internet is like a research engine that gives yopu the knowledge to go out and find the thing for real.

[humeka]

i don't wanna pay for mp3. i'm ok for better quality downloadable files like waves. i mean, if the common file type becomes the mp3, what about all the efforts the musician made to make his tunes sound good (and sound engineer, and mastering process) ?
i agree that mp3 is surely the best promotional approach available today (lost cost and ease of use) but it must comes in addition to catalogues, not against it.

[Loz]

@humeka: you don't have to compress mp3s to 128kbs

with variable birate, it's very hard to tell the difference between that and an uncompressed wav, and it's still around an 8th of the size.