'laptop music'...where are things heading?

[garrison76]

ok, so i'm bored at work and was thinking about the current state and rate of music being put out and wanted to put forth a few questions to the ertufon users.

1. how do you guys feel about the 1,001 labels that have come out in the past year or so, do you see this as a positive or negative direction in electronic music? will this hurt the future production of quality music; it seems increasingly difficult for artists to survive with so much out there.

2. does the current software available make it too easy to make music? (note: doesn't always mean good music) it's just crazy to see the quantity of music being made, it just seems much more accesible for a kid to get a cheap desktop and some software cracks and he's making bleeps-n-clicks in no time. with the advent of products like 'final scratch', will djs no longer use hardware (vinyl)?

3. is this trend of pure software based music creating a new homogenous (maybe even formulaic) sound, the same way that the 909 sounds were overused (and maybe still are)? has it become that feeling has become lost in making music this way, are things too programmed and polished using software?

i don't know, i'm probably coming across in a negative manner, but it just seems that this new accessibility has brought about such a vast amount of music that sounds the same/uninspired, that it's become increasingly difficult to sift through the the mass of new 'minimal'/'idm'/whatever genre term of the month 'producers' doing the same stuff, to get to the people who are actually doing something interesting with the medium.

i was also (and still am) blown away when native instruments and cycling 74 really started pumping out products, but the end result just hasn't evolved in a progressive manner.

sorry for the lack of structure in my thoughts, the coffee's strong this morning...plus a subject like this needs some feedback/discussion to really get going.

i'll stop blabbing: i'm interested to know how others feel about this.

daniel

[jamyna]

1. The more the better. This is what is known as a "scene".

2. Software is just a tool, like some cyberfrenetic spanner or sumfing.

3. I dont know what homogenous means but 909s are cool.

[public]

the entire improvisational element of electronic music is being erased by people who cut and paste with software, press play and let the tune run out. BULLSHIT. contrived. uninspired bullshit.


FUCK SOFTWARE. FUCK ANYONE WHO BATHES IN THE BLUE GLOW OF A COMPUTER ON STAGE WHILE DROOLING, CLICKING AND ZONING OUT IN FRONT OF AN AUDIENCE. FUCK LAPTOP LIVE SETS.

FUCK
LOGIC/CUBASE/FRUITY LOOPS



:(

[jamyna]

Show yourself you bounda, you cad!

[public]

:-p

[garrison76]

"scenes" are for "scenesters"; hence the indie infatuation. the 909 is cool, if used in an interesting way...the dry kick, high hat, and clap makes me wanna yack though.

homogenous meaning everyone/everything sounding the same, cause of the same software + lack of creativity.

[bitch one]

i think there are always a small percentage of really good tracks out the, no matter what tools were used to create them. the question is, has the new technology decreased or increased this percentage, or has the ratio remained the same? i would surmise that the ratio remains the same. therefore the more music that is released, the more good music is released.

just because a lot of people copy a certain sound doesn't mean that the sound itself is invalid. we had this problem for a while with everyone copying jeff mills. you can't blame jeff mills for that.

[garrison76]

true, not blaming mills; the copying going on now is at another level though, if just by shear volume. plus not many people had serge-modules or other gear he used, so i still believe it's not the same as the software issue.

also, i semi-agree about the percentages, but i think that as more is released overall, the quality release percentage lowers in an inversely proportional manner (hope that came out correctly?)

oh well, at least there are still some folks out there making real music.

[Killer tomato]

Originally posted by bitch one
i think there are always a small percentage of really good tracks out the, no matter what tools were used to create them.

The trouble is, the amount of kak that you have to wade thru to find them......

[garrison76]

my point exactly, killer.

[lucid rinehead]

i can't see anything wrong with using software rather than hardware? if it opens up the possibilities of production to more people then it has to be a good thing...claiming otherwise is just elitist wank. inevitably there will be a volume of shite/mediocre/ok/quite nice stuff created along with the small proportion of amazing records, but theres plenty of crap/not to your taste music to sift through already anyway. if it means more good music then it has to be a good thing, in my opinion.

i've never been to a gig where someone has just got in behind their laptop and press play...not saying it doesn't happen, just that i've never seen it. actually, the only person i've ever seen using only a laptop is bob brown so maybe my (in)experience isn't a good indicator.

[lucid rinehead]

ok that belonged about half way up from when i started typing it...

[public]

yo. no one talks about the way hip hop or breakbeat oriented trax sound the same because everyone is "copying" the snare and kick patterns... but make one 4/4 tune and everyone goes and sights jeff and sez you are a biter.

[V Knid esq]

Originally posted by public
the entire improvisational element of electronic music is being erased by people who cut and paste with software, press play and let the tune run out. BULLSHIT. contrived. uninspired bullshit.


Piffle - anything that relies on loops and a sequencer can be cut'n'pasted, whether it's midi or audio data. At last year's sonar I saw plenty of Powerbook-based stuff that was properly live and reacted to the dancefloor as only a live jam can. As long as a style keeps touch with an energetic reception, it can keep some vitality flowing (which is why I was asking about micro/glitch/click/cr666ck/whore house in a clubbing environment)... good musicians tend to connect with one another, so once you find some good stuff it is usually possible to follow the traces/clues to the rich veins, bypassing the biters... which is what this site is all about, right?

[garrison76]

yeah, i'm not trying to rip the use of software, i 've just felt lately that it's all soundig the same...unfortunatelly.

too many people making sounds/bleeps/cracks and not music...i'm just on crack i guess. don't get me wrong, i could listen to the same basic channel stuff over and over, it's not that those sounds don't have feeling...hmm, maybe i'm just already a grumpy old man at 25?! anyways, i shouldn't hold others to the standard of maurizio/thomas fellman.etc. when it comes to that sound, i'm bound to be let down if i do.

i'm just blabbing today.

[alex cortex]

everyone here´s going on about soft- and hardware, nobody mentions the person using them. to me, a good musician is someone who brings up inspired results whatever way the music is created.

the easy access to making music by using software has the advantage of bringing people to making music who would have never thought they were talented. killer tomato is right - there´s just more useless music to be checked in order to find the interisting pieces.

[bitch one]

Originally posted by garrison76

also, i semi-agree about the percentages, but i think that as more is released overall, the quality release percentage lowers in an inversely proportional manner (hope that came out correctly?)

oh well, at least there are still some folks out there making real music.

dunno about that. why should the ratio of quality to shit music decrease? give me a reason. you think it's easier to make music with a computer than with hardware? it's just cheaper. ie better - more fair, more accessible to all, more PUNK. you are like a prog rocker clinging to your expensive studio equipment as the DIY explosion happens.

maybe the percentage of good music is defined by how refined your taste is. that is not fixed - i certainly am more discerning now than i was 10 years ago .

[garrison76]

cortex,
i guess i didn't touch on that and should of, it's obviously who uses it and how that is a large part of why things seem stagnant at the moment; the current situation with ease/accessability and popularity in general has brought about the creation of a new, unimaginative, bland sound (i'm so positive).

i've noticed a large shift in ex-indie-punk kids making blip-crack-click-tick-shrang tracks.

[garrison76]

nope, not a prog rocker, just a refined taste and sense/opinion of what i see as the same sounds being put out. it's much easier (and as you said cheaper) to make mediocre music with software...and i guess the same is true with hardware. but with the accessability of software, there has been an increase in mediocre stuff out there.

the disagreement on percentage drop in quality with increase in quantity is my belief and can also be seen in elementary economics principles.

i have stated many times that there's nothing wrong with software, i just wonder more if it's just a moment in music where things aren't progressing or if it's a trend. i love a lot of the stuff coming out using max/msp, ni programs, etc...don't get me wrong there.

hope i'm not coming off like i'm attacking anyone out there, just wanted to discuss and luckily folks here have some opinions on te subject.

d

[V Knid esq]

Originally posted by garrison76

the disagreement on percentage drop in quality with increase in quantity is my belief and can also be seen in elementary economics principles.


Woah! That's a statement we can't let pass without asking for specific references!

I can't pretend to know objectively proportions of good to bad music change withing specific zones of the music world... For what it's worth, I think this is a particularly fresh time, and I think that styles that have been a bit chinstrokey are now being picked up by the grass roots technoheads and given the energy of people who like to wig out as well as ponder. I don't know about the bland shit -as I said, one can ignore the bullshit once you tap into the veins of music that matter and follow the links and props to the next thing...

[garrison76]

i guess the specific reference isn't gonna happen, unless i decide to do a dissertation. i just don't feel it's logical to think that the increase in the amount of music will be proportionate in creating the same increase in quality music (of course it will increase, but not the same percentage)...my opinion on that.

true on tapping into what's good and continuing to follow that and it's offspring, that's pretty much with all music. i just hope those quality artists can survive with so much out there and even more of it floating around for free.

[bitch one]

also the internet means you can spread crap music about far easier than putting out records, so that has definitely increased our exposure to garbage - but it's crap music you don't pay for.

but when i go to a record shop, i have always found myself listening to a huge pile of guff and wanting to buy 1 or 2.
that hasn't changed. the sad thing about that is that often the tracks i like best are the ones that i didn't like at first. i wish i was famous so i didn't have to buy em at all..

[lucid rinehead]

on the percentages thing; i suppose that if you have spent heaps of money on a studio then that does imply that there's a fair bit of commitment there...whereas if you spend 500 quid on a pc and d/l some warez then it might be a hobby. you might argue that this could reduce the proportion of good music in new releases.

but who cares? good music is good! personally i don't mind a bit of dredging.

[alex cortex]

i guess that most musicians in any field of music base their creation on something they´ve heard before. the more crap is out there the more stagnant the whole thing gets. seclusion is just one way to avoid this trap, even if you use the same equipment as anyone else.

[bitch one]

if that's true then dj's shouldn't be as good at making great music as pure boffins..

uh-oh, i smell an aesthetics argument coming now

do good tracks have an essential aesthetic value of their own? or is goodness in the ears of the beholder? in which case, the best tracks are the ones judge jules plays....aaarggghh.
or do we judge goodness by the calibre of the people that like them? then we are being elitist.

bollox, i'm gonna stop this now before i go mad.

[alex cortex]

:) calm down

either way is possible. take s_c as an example. don´t think they dropped listening to what is going on and still they do inspired music. or take maurizio or drexciya as an example. both seem not to care for trends and what is going on out there and they do inspired music. so what, in the end it´s about talent on the musicians side and the here often quoted refined taste on the listeners side.

[garrison76]

good taste is in the ear of the minority, the majority can keep there super star djs/dance acts. in my opinion good trax have a timeless sound, whatever that is!

as for cortex's last statement, i think i'm gonna go make polar bear trax in antarctica; must...escape...marketing...no ...more...radio...

[bitch one]

alex cortex ,
you are right.

thanks for easing my tangled brain.

[garrison76]

yeah, i agree cortex. hey, did someone mention percentages? an increase in quantity out there unfortunatelly hasn't increased releases from maurizio, drexciya, juan, convextion, s_c, or the like in quality.......just more s. walkers.

[Loz]

I personally love being able to grab a program off the net and start making music. You'll never hear any of it, because in my opinion it's not that good, but maybe one day I'll get there.

But to me it is a hobby, I can't afford to spend several grand on a decent studio setup, it's a lot easier to use my computer and get similar-sounding results for a fraction of the cost.

Shit music will always exist, and there will always be more shit music that good stuff, but the more people who make music, the more good stuff as well as shit will come out, and therefore, it's a good thing.

That makes no sense, does it?

[Killer tomato]

Dosn't matter what you use, so long as you use it well......
Hardware does seem to sound fatter and is ultimatly going to be more hands on.....

[JE:5]

Yeah, I hated using the pc for making tracks for ages, but I am now getting used to the concept. It just means you have to put a bit more effort into it to achieve the desired result.

[Lady E]

personally and this is probably because ive always been into RAWK as well as electronic shit
i hate seeing people playing around with laptops live
dont mind them being part of a show with other synths, instruments or even someone enjoying themselves
but i cant get my head around the solo snore laptop vibe - saw farmer's manual once and hated it...im sure they are great to those who like that stuff but i just didnt like it
there doesnt seem to be any performance there
at sonar the laptop stuff is always in the same place, in the basement, where its really cold and dark and you just want to leave.

[Ruben A]

Hey STOP!!!! we all started making music with a tracker program, right??? Some still using software - some hardware. Both making good tracks - both making bad tracks..
Just went to see Akufen live... only using Ableton Live. He didn´t move a muscle!! People expected something to happen, but... Anyway, his tracks rocks and that´s the point!

Also seen a lot of bands moving all their equipment onto stage - and twisting/turning/pressing knobs.... but still keeping borring!??

YOU as a person are the one to choose!???? Only the strongest will live... (also when it comes to labels.).

Taste!

[Sheridan]

I think that what makes a track good is the quality of the sounds and how they are presented. It doesn't matter to me if they are made in a huge studio on hardware, or on some chaps computer in his bedroom. does the end justify the means? I guess I am a proponet of the old adage "you work with what you have". I personally would love a nice studio with a bunch of gear but I don't have the money. So I put stock in a nice fast solid mac, got some programs and started working. slowly but surely I will atain the synths and other gear I desire. Is it actually easier to use comps over hardware??
I think it may be faster, but to me what is hard about making a track is finding the right sounds and figuring out how they should work together. I spend most of my time finding sounds and altering them then I actualy do putting them together.
I don't think that the explosion in computer producers is really watering down the scene. that is happening because of the general popularity electronic music has been seeing the past few years. Think of how many rock bands are playing shitty clubs all over the world just waiting for a break? trying to get that big record deal.
thats the beauty of techno, you don't need to. lets say I make a track, and the top goal would be to have it released on Tresor. they say no. well then screw it I will press it myself and get it out. I think that has become more and more common because people don't want to deal with record companies and would rather do it themselves.
I know I'd rather own and release stuff on my own label than have to rely on someone else screwing it up. true it means we sift through more crap, but that means more voices are being heard and of course that means "more secret gems everyone else slept on". in the end I look for substance (as I am sure we all do). I could give two shits if some producer just got the new pro tools rig, doesn't mean you have the creativity and vision to make something great. Oliver Ho made his first ep using cheap equipment and a mixer that was old as dirt. but he has the creativity to make good tracks.

[Sheridan]

as far as live shows go it swings both ways.
I saw autechre live on 2 laptop G4s. they just hid in the
dark smoking cigs. barely saw their faces. but the music was
dope. I have also seen hardfloor live on all hardware setup.
they too just sat there and played their stuff. didn't even
mix in track to track. VERY BORING. so it doesn't really
matter in the end. unless you are the advent and you know
you are going to destroy everyone!!

[Tomoki]

@ruben
so akufen was worth a listen?unfortunately the gig with him here in frankfurt was cancelled last week.

[Ruben A]

@Tomoki... Yeah, it was ok. Free vodka and beers from pm 22-23.. Unfortunately I had to wait for 4,5 hour until Akufen joined.. listening to rare house grooves... uhrhhgg... zzzzzzzzz.....

The sounds and especially the bassdrum was awesome. Superb quality!

[Loz]

What's the point in seeing laptop music live?

The whole point (at least for me) to see a live show is to see a show. I want to see people making a vibe, playing around with their stuff, reinterpretating and improvising, much like a good live band.

I don't like seeing any live artists that simply play carbon copies of their songs live, to me that defeats the entire object, might as well stay home and listen to a cd.

The emotion is an important thing, too, and I haven't seen many live electronica and dance artists convey any emotion into their shows, and that really shows up as lacking something. One thing about rock and suchlike, a live guitar is a very emotional instrument, as are drums and bass guitars or flutes or whatever you use, because you're physically manipulating it. Live electronica artists that manipulate machines live are good. Live electronica artists that click buttons and connect their I-Book up to an amp are bad.

However, some fantastic live bands are rubbish when it comes to studio stuff (King Prawn are a notable one) and some fantastic studio bands are rubbish live (Sigur Ros). I imagine the same with electronica. Probably when I think about it, mainly due to emotion or lack of.

[V Knid esq]

So as more and more can be done by a single piece of hardware (to whit a laptop), and more and more electronic instruments become superfluous (to some of us, anyway), we need new interfaces, right? V-drums, midi guitars et al have been around for a while... what else can make a digital performance more exciting? Giant scratch pads? Jean Michel Jarre keyboards?

(Of course a musical performance doesn't actually HAVE to have a visual element... if you are playing in a dark sweaty club, the importance of playing live is that you can enter into a feedback system with the crowd, sense their waves of tension, release and other emotional and physical reactions, and let your music amplify/confound/bugger them)

[Yer_Maw]

i personally do think a live band can have more impact than most electronca acts but has nobody here seen tubejerk live? that laptop had as much impact as anything could in my opinion. however SAND, mouse on mars, death in vegas were absolutely fantastic live. that maybey where things are heading, a mixture between people actually doing something and laptop madness.

oh and trying to exain to a 60 yr old beefheart fan why 'fatboy slim' was on tv headlining at glastonbury was a point i really didnt have the heart to defend...

[@m.]

Werd to the one like Loz. On point!

Just went to see Akufen live... only using Ableton Live. He didn´t move a muscle!! - Rueben A

Akufen's music is fantastic and viciously different than just about everyone out there. That said, I totally agree with Rueben - his live act is BORING! i don't want to see some guy click play with his mouse and then sit there, basking in the glow of his laptop screen while brandishing a cigarette and a coffee. Boo-urns! At least set something on fire at the end of it for christsakes..

Everyone likes fires.

[Ruben A]

@@m..exactly!!!!! Why is it everyone playing live or dj has to smoke cigarets????? Looks like crap - like they are bored or just do this because they had to... or..or... very unmotivated?!! FuckQ!! I hate to see that!? Or the new trend with dj´s dresing up like models, to show their muscels and their hair!? zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

hehe

[Loz]

I saw Leftfield live on the tv at 2 years ago Glastonbury, and they reproduced all of their songs with largely real instruments, drums, bass guitars, a small orchestra. This is the RIGHT way to do stuff. Best of both worlds.

I saw Fat Boy Slim playing to. Well, I say playing, he was putting one record on, sitting down, getting up, putting another record on, waving at the screaming fans, and sitting down again. This is the WRONG way to do stuff.

I'd go so far to say that bands are a better live experience than electronica artists on the whole, which a few exceptions, obviously.

[pejot]

Sutekh's live act with mostly laptop but also some midi-controler and an effect was very good. Last week I was at Barbara Morgenstern show. She was using laptop for playback of rhythm etc. while playing at organs and singing "live". It was good show also, public get involved. Anyone have seen or rather heard Forshaw live? Despite all the computer shit that comes out it is worth as long as some of it is great.

I'm pretty bored to hear very similar sounding tracks but it's not the problem of laptops as also some artists using machines tend to copy themselves.

What really makes me suspicious is mp3 mixing. Before Vogel at Native Instruments party somone played this kind of set (probably as an advertisment of Tracktor or some software of similar name used for mixing mp3). It sounded bad. What worries me is this way even sales of vinyl can be hit making it even harder for many labels.

[rmr]

When I was in a punk band nearly 25 years ago..people complained that there was too much low quality music...some of it was, but some of it was great....

long long before that some thought that using electric instruments was somehow cheating

When the use of synthesiers became wider people moaned that this wasnt real music and it was somehow cheating...

When DJing as performance became wide pread some complained that it was just mixing other people stuff toghether therefore not valid in some way

When people started doing "Live PA's" they were accused of just being knob twidlers, and therefore the music wasn't real and that there was no feel (Im going to recommend that if you havent seen justin Berkovi do a PA you should..they are burst with energy and always sound different)

I disagree with all the above suggests...since music was recordable and capable of being disseminated via radio or vinyl, (maybe even sheet music) there has been loads of music that no one person would like all of...eg Ive got a lot of "punk" records but only a tiny proportion of what had been produced..and Ive heard plenty of crap over the years that has been produced by electric guitars, and people with zillion dollar studios, 1210s, or gemini copies

Ive mixed my laptop stuff with decks and tactile effects controllers, and recorded my own samples from my own voice the telly, banged together household objects..(I havent managed to get a high enough level on my cat yet though, shes got a very unusual purr...)
Ive mutated and twisted little snippets of drums or syths or whatever and built things from there up into patterns and fucked around with them...when I play out I dont know what the whole thing is going to sound like as I will be cutting and using effects on the fly via the mouse and a kaoss pad, and the mixer as I go....
Ive seen good things on laptops, and not so good things but the range is approximate to that which I have witnessed over the last 25 years in various different genres, styles, methods.....

I thing time spent working on music is a very key element...a lot of people who use "instant music packages" might do a tune in 15 minutes, I get quizzical looks from people when I tell them I use making waves, as many consider it to be a glorified tracker (actually it has considerable deepth)..but its the punk in me that wants to use this...I will try Live! when I have the money, but even if I was mega rich I would not be spending a vast amount on hardware, its a bit too B.O.F. and cumbersume, and I think its good to reaaly know a tool inside out before you start just buying more gear..its just not me..I just dont want to carry loads of black boxes around...

[bitch one]

i reckon if a guy has made 45 minutes of absolute dancefloor killers, and he wants to just stand there and enjoy the atmosphere that HE created, without actually doing anything, why the hell not? everyone is happy to give dj's the credit for just playing the records.

i am specifically thinking of old time rave pa's like NJOI here, which usually involved a DAT and a couple of breakdancers to look at.
and they rocked more than just about anything i have heard ever.

maybe what the laptoppers need is a couple of gogo dancers.

[aleks]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ruben A
Why is it everyone playing live or dj has to smoke cigarets?????

because it makes them look sexy :-p

[bitch one]

yeah! gogo dancers smoking cigarettes. now that's what i call a live set.

[c s]

Originally posted by pejot
Before Vogel at Native Instruments party somone played this kind of set (probably as an advertisment of Tracktor

it wasn't traktor what she used, some other program - but mate galic did a traktor session in the foyer late at night.

What worries me is this way even sales of vinyl can be hit making it even harder for many labels.

why ? making mp3 from vinyl is quite an effort. almost no dj will be willing to spend so much time.

[Killer tomato]

Originally posted by bitch one
yeah! gogo dancers smoking cigarettes. now that's what i call a live set.

You've hit the nail on the head here....I think sheer stage presence has to be employed to get away with a computer liveset...i.e. the less boxes with knobs on and wires coming out of the back, the more of a stage presence the artist has to have...shouting, screaming, urinating, Vomiting, throwing dead animals into the crowd, biteing the heads off Bats.....and so on and so forth.....also more action in the hotel room after, Tv straight out of the window, hotel room parties, groupies, and £15,000 room service bills.......Hooray for Rock and Roll, more of it is needed in techno.....

[Killer tomato]

Originally posted by Killer tomato


You've hit the nail on the head here....I think sheer stage presence has to be employed to get away with a computer liveset...i.e. the less boxes with knobs on and wires coming out of the back, the more of a stage presence the artist has to have...shouting, screaming, urinating, Vomiting, throwing dead animals into the crowd, biteing the heads off Bats.....and so on and so forth.....also more action in the hotel room after, Tv straight out of the window, hotel room parties, groupies, and £15,000 room service bills.......Hooray for Rock and Roll, more of it is needed in techno.....

BTW: Promoters: don't let this put you off booking me for my live thing when it comes together...then again, if there's a hotel manager you have a grudge with, I'll be more than happy to oblige....

[jukka]

exactly killer tomato.....we need more techno punks.
let's rock da house.

[zombie ritual]

Once there was a time when it was seen as a progress that you didn't have silly acting egomaniacs on stage. It was important that the music be the main issue, maybe the audience or the club crowd as well, not so much the dj's or the musicians. Now, astonishingly, things like "stage presence" or "personality" are all coming back.

I must say that if I go to an electronic event I don't expect the same thing as if going to a rock concert. And the best live sets I ever witnessed were performed by totally static, non-acting musicians: Panasonic and Twerk. Panasonic were basically not doing much more than standing there, occasionally twiddling knobs on their analogue synthesizers (which were not many) and having an oscillogram in the background. But the music was so fucking crushing and huge, you just fell into it and actually forgot about the two guys. Plus, they kind of looked really cool standing there like emotion-less technicians, very much like I imagined Kraftwerk all the time. Twerk just sat behind his laptop (ok he didn't smoke cigarettes), I don't know what exactly he was doing there (and maybe I didn't even want to know), but he managed to bring a real flow into his music, something which most electronic liveacts are obviously unable to do and managed to keep up the intensity through the whole set, also something which is rarely found in the world of electronic live-acts.

And for all those who watch ambient live acts: well, that's your bloody own fault.

[alex cortex]

to me the best electronic live performances i witnessed were autechre and s_c (no asskissing intended, guys). the reason: i just didn´t want to know how they were doing it, cos the music was beyond all that. as soon as the person on stage is more interisting than the music there seems to be something lacking. well, of course it´s possible that a musician looks or acts interisting on stage and does support the music this way - depends.

[rmr]

I'll be checking out Mr Forshaw's stage presence tonight in glasgow...he and Mr Berkovi look like they are enjoying themselves..when they do PAs...

[gunjack]

I laugh my ass off everytime some fucker's computer crashes on stage.

:-p

[stevo]

better a computer crash, as a wrenched DAT! :(

[gunjack]

PLAYBACK IS BULLSHIT

[Killer tomato]

Originally posted by zombie ritual
Once there was a time when it was seen as a progress that you didn't have silly acting egomaniacs on stage. It was important that the music be the main issue, maybe the audience or the club crowd as well, not so much the dj's or the musicians. Now, astonishingly, things like "stage presence" or "personality" are all coming back.

I must say that if I go to an electronic event I don't expect the same thing as if going to a rock concert. And the best live sets I ever witnessed were performed by totally static, non-acting musicians: Panasonic and Twerk. Panasonic were basically not doing much more than standing there, occasionally twiddling knobs on their analogue synthesizers (which were not many) and having an oscillogram in the background. But the music was so fucking crushing and huge, you just fell into it and actually forgot about the two guys. Plus, they kind of looked really cool standing there like emotion-less technicians, very much like I imagined Kraftwerk all the time. Twerk just sat behind his laptop (ok he didn't smoke cigarettes), I don't know what exactly he was doing there (and maybe I didn't even want to know), but he managed to bring a real flow into his music, something which most electronic liveacts are obviously unable to do and managed to keep up the intensity through the whole set, also something which is rarely found in the world of electronic live-acts.

And for all those who watch ambient live acts: well, that's your bloody own fault.


You're right, it does seem to be coming back, but in a parodied ironic way (Which is the point, no-one should be seen to be taking themselves too seriously) As long as everyone is having a laugh, and the sounds are cool, that's the main thing.....I can't think of anything more boring than some geek just standing there....Kraftwerk did their thing in their time, it's definatly time to kik back and have some fun...Oh and get that crowd hyped up as well.....

[Atarythm]

Originally posted by rmr
I'll be checking out Mr Forshaw's stage presence tonight in glasgow...

Well, if a name could describe "stage presence" then I must say Forshaw is the one... And not only in Live Pa's but also his Dj-Sets... And for the live-acts no laptop but... Desktop lol

[sacul]

i finaly had heard forshaw onec. something like an animal. but i don't want to hear him twice.

[emef]

Originally posted by rmr
I'll be checking out Mr Forshaw's stage presence tonight in glasgow...he and Mr Berkovi look like they are enjoying themselves..when they do PAs...

unfortunately i didnt make it to test last night.
the car broke down and breakdown couldnt get it going again so they had to tow us back to preston. i was fuckin gutted,
my apologies to anyone who went to test to hear me play.

@ gunjack.... i piss myself when people play boring dirge techno live and its the same kickdrum all the way through and the same hats and the same ride and the same clap.... blah blah blah.
and we only know a new track has started cos the sound playing over the top is slightly different.
is it one long track lasting 50 minutes??????..........mmm

my computer has only crashed onstage once......the dj whacked a record on straight away.....i reloaded while the record played.
after 2 minutes i was ready to go again.
and oddly , the crowd were even more hyped up when i got going again.
i play live with a full size pc cos i cant afford a laptop.

[baba]

s'all right as long as musicians move about a bit - jiggle or wear funny bear suits. Otherwise laptop muisc is boring live. really really boring.

sounds great on a record but looks a bit like paint drying

[c-Horse]

I heard yesterday Michel de Heij playing with Final scratch. Absolutely no audible difference from playing with vinyl.

More info on final scratch : www.finalscratch.com
And here are some pictures ( full versions on www.appletree.be, pictures section, on date june 1st : Metalheadz and Michel de Heij ) :

http://www.appletree.be/Pictures/MetalHeadz/pix/thumbnails/tnMetalHeadz_Final_Scratch%200 36.jpg http://www.appletree.be/Pictures/MetalHeadz/pix/thumbnails/tnMetalHeadz_Final_Scratch%200 39.jpg http://www.appletree.be/Pictures/MetalHeadz/pix/thumbnails/tnMetalHeadz_Final_Scratch%200 40.jpg

[bitch one]

pity we missed you emef, however daniel benavente rocked like a mutha wth his bit of extra time, so no hard feelins.

[Orson Welles]

or a rabbit suits'all right as long as musicians move about a bit - jiggle or wear funny bear suits. Otherwise laptop muisc is boring live. really really boring.

[7875]

the caught the Rephex Tour last week and granted, laptop performances are boring as fuck but Bogdan Razcynski(?) was just about the most animated techno performer ive seen so far. shaking, jumping up and down, pulling at himself, wrenching his body this way and that and just freaking the fuck out on stage made everyone just stand there wondering "is the music coming out of him or the laptop?"
unbelievable. Ed DMX rocked that shit too, seranding the crowd through the vocoder and boucing around to his electro bass and not just clicking along and standing there looking bored.

[Loz]

I went to Glastonbury this weekend just gone, one of the Special Guests was Squarepusher.

I went along (sadly missed Aphex Twin the night before, didn't know he was one of the Special Guests until after the event, since they weren't announced until the day they played), and when I was there, everyone was dancing, the strobes and smoke machines were going, and it was all about the music and not about the long haired beared man who only moved his head from behind his laptop a few times to shout into a nearby microphone asking if we wanted some more (we did).

I was quite interesting to watch, actually, in the brief periods when I wasn't slamming it down big style with the hard core ravers, or whatever lingo the kids are using these days. On top of an amp case was a laptop (notably not an Apple Mac), and a small bed-side lamp (complete with peace lampshade), just bright enough so you could barely make out the features of Mr Tom Jenkinson. He was doing an awful lot on that laptop, and from his movements (including waving his hands about in time to some sound affect or noise he'd just made) it wasn't just a mix tape type deal, he was mixing it all live.

And with the strobes and the smoke machines, and various shapes being made by lights and projectors, it didn't matter that he wasn't dancing or whatever, for the most point, you barely noticed.


However, I also saw Zero 7 on the Sunday night, who had transferred their songs to a 6 piece band, plus singers. That was really fantastic too, nice to see a live reinterpretation of their songs, especially when they pulled it off really really well. That was one of the real highlights of the weekend.