LE PEN - round 1

[Magnumforce]

question? what the fuck is that goin on in France?

[V Knid esq]

Originally posted by Magnumforce
question? what the fuck is that goin on in France?

As far as I can see, Le Pen did not get much more support than he usually does (although at 5 million votes, that is still waaaaay too much) - what happened is that general voter apathy and the disintegration of the left into various parties meant that no-one bothered to vote for Jospin's socialist party. This is annoying as Jospin is actually one of the very few honest (if boring) politicians in france. Chirac is definitely corrupt.

All vaguely centrist voters will rally round in the second round of the Presidential Election and Le Pen will get trounced by Chirac. The consensus so far seems to be that this will also serve as a wake-up call for the Socialists, and they will sort their act out and convincingly win the parliamentary elections which are...er... sometime in the next year.

Sick shit, though. Le Pen is by all accounts a charming politician, but for fucks sake he's a nazi thug - he even has a conviction for hitting a protestor at one of his rallies!

[emef]

there seems to be a swing to the right all across europe these days.
maybe it happens every 25 years or so.

[cynthia]

we must do something!!!!

get together!!!
vote!!!
demonstrate!!!
speak up!!!

we can not tolerate europe growing in to a new fascist state, together we can and must destroy fascism!!!

[Atarythm]

I'm sick since as saw that...I think I'm going to puke...
I don't understand how someone who speak like him can become as much votes as this...

[mini]

yeah, against fascism is always good.
but what do ya all think how long the humans would exist?

[phdbob]

fascism et al is just a sign of fear! i don´t know what physical fighting is good for really. phenomena like these are the results of the accumulated madness every personal being passes on every day (madness!)...try not to be a part of it should be good enaugh!

if the aggressor would not understand words and there is no peaceful way to prevent him from harming himself and others then you might be forced to use physical power...but while doing this you should not hate or rage...understand and feel pity for the disturbed mind...

[mini]

hey guys,
how long do ya think world' s globalisation would go on like this?
i am really convinced, that one day a great revolution or war would be, were all those fuckin capitalists and global players would be destroyed!
our system wont work for year-hundreds. no more.
and ps: i have had a lot of problems caused by beeing a punk...

[maudular]

well, I feel shocked and afraid ...

It's the first time, since the beginning of the 5th Republic, that a extreme-right wing politician managed to get on the second ballot...

Vernicious Knid I'm sorry but Lepen got much more than he "usually" does... 17 % !! And Jospin is not more honnest that another one ! he's been implicated in bad affairs too...

as I read in some french newspapers, this nightmare happened because of some of the following reasons:

* left wing was far too disintegrated

* Lionel Jospin has been prime minister for 5 years now, and this seemed to have given to French the feeling that the result of the election would be predictable and that nothing would happened... caus of that, those who usually vote right wing protested by voting to extreme right, while the left electorate chose not to vote (28% of abstention shows as well the real malaise, as if French finally didn't really care about who is governing their own country)

* Lionel Jospin didn't emphasise enough his programm about "security" . Security is the "number one problem" in France, as the newspaper and politicians like to repeat... and Lepen used and abused of it, as a main theme of his campain, Chirac did it as well ...though delinquance has always been part of the society, but how can a country pretend to give security to its citizens while the people supposed to bring this security, the police, is more and more implicated in some very bad affairs... a good exemple can be found in the film "La Haine" by Cedric Klapish, about the cops behaviour in France and the way they bring "security"...


so now in France we have the choose between a fucking fascist bloke, well known for his participations to acts of torture during the Algeria war (to name but a few horrors about him) and a president who has been recently implicated in some major justice affairs (basicaly, he took a lot, several millions francs, in his pocket to go on holiday with his family; to name but a few too)...

and another country, after Italy, Austria, America, is getting close to choose a fascist as a representant... it started like that before 39-45, slowly but surely...in a legitimate way

[phdbob]

so le pen want´s to get france out of the EU???

le pen in france, stoiber in germany, bertolusconi in italy, the united states of facist europe! sieg heil...should get me an uniform....

[Atarythm]

@ maudular : He just get 250'000 (2%) votes more than in 1995 that's not so much , but allready too much... :(


Elect José Bové, that's the one... ;)

[emef]

at least people in france are rioting and protesting on the streets against him now.

[karitek]

Originally posted by emef
there seems to be a swing to the right all across europe these days.

yeah, look what's happenning in holland with Fortuyn and the Leefbaar?!? i mean, if we can't even count on the dutch to be liberal... :(

[freshmint]

Originally posted by cynthia
we must do something!!!!

get together!!!
vote!!!
demonstrate!!!
speak up!!!

we can not tolerate europe growing in to a new fascist state, together we can and must destroy fascism!!!

leave europe, to a place where people still know how to treat each other.

[phdbob]

@freshmint


so where??? should we go?

cornucopia?

[Atarythm]

a good exemple can be found in the film "La Haine" by Cedric Klapish, about the cops behaviour in France and the way they bring "security"...

Pretty hard then, btw really great movie...

I passed a lot of time in France and I have to say the most of the places are not much more "dangerous" as here in Switzerland... But I didn't went to places like Paris suburbs or so... Just lived in Geneva who's like Lyon suburbs these times...

[DaFunction]

Nice Idea freshmint, but we have only one world and when its getting brown on one side again, you have the problems everywhere. Running away is no solution....I think we must fight against this kind of politics.

Tell me one place on earth where everybody treated right. I dont know such a place...

[DaFunction]

And when facism is growing up, I fear that our movement, i mean techno music, where killed immediately. And that is not in ours reflects, or what do you think about that.

[deccard]

@dafunction:
the "technomovement" understood itself always as non-political.
(like ladybug stated in her thread about the rave they want to organise)
so how many of those technopeople participated at a demonstration for or against something? (or will?)
so it´s some sort of hedonism which will always exist. techno will never be "killed". maybe it will make itself ridiculous....hm
but when i think of organsisations/events like reclaim the streets
maybe they just need some support from the bigger techno-electronicmusic names to go further.
get it into their minds.

i heard that a lot of ngo´s in spain had problems with police brutality. don´t forget the italians...
seems like its gonna be "festung europa"...europes answer to america and a try to find its identity.

[maikeru]

sorry to get all no political here but has anyone noticed that nostradamus had foretold this exact thing happening over 400 years ago or something like that??? fucking scary. well kids it sure looks like all his prophecies are coming true, all we need is a black pope and we are well and truly fubared!

I could get a job for the sun or news of the world with sensational tripe like this....but the weird thing is that this is what this guy predicted years ago....

[Sheridan]

whatever you do, don't come to america,
we've been run by fascists for a long time.
I am actually trying to move out of here.
Fubar indeed, who wants to start a new country?

[baba]

Some bloke on newsnight said that the recent rise in European right wingyness is due to the fact that there hasn't been a fascist gov't for 50 years. Older people remember Hitler - youngens don't so they can not empathise with fascism's victims.

i would have thought that the french in particular would be more adverse to fascism considering the occupation, but like the man on newsnight said - the youngens don't remember.

It really annoys me that Le Pen got so many votes because of the 'immigration problem'(law and order is its disguise). Everyday we see images of displaced people (bosnian, afghans, algerian etc) and Europe is becoming increasingly inhospitable to them. I can not understand why we are not embracing them- especially as more often than not its is our countries who sell arms to people who make wars that create refugees. Besides, it is only luck that we have been born into wealthy countries, i don't see why we have more right to exclude others than they do us?

Imagine, If Britain had a Le Penian policy 30 odd years ago. This board that you are looking at right now may not have existed because Cristian's parents would not have been able to move to England from Chile and Cristian may not have grown up to be a musican and no-future may not have existed.

A multi-culture is the only future culture possible - or at least the only cultured future.

[baba]

ps - huge bunnies don't exist -we've looked for them everywhere and the biggest ones are only twice the size of normal bunnies

[Atarythm]

Just heard Le Pen yesterday saying that, at the second round, he'll be closer to 50% than 20%...

I'm just hoping it doesn't become true...

[Atarythm]

has anyone noticed that nostradamus had foretold this exact thing happening over 400 years ago or something like that???

Whatever happens there's always someone to say that Nostradamus had foretold it...

[V Knid esq]

Originally posted by Atarythm


Whatever happens there's always someone to say that Nostradus had foretold it...

That's because he predicted everything, obviously :illin:

[amble]

i think what happened in france is most of all a protest against politics at all. i mean if i take a look at those idiots ruling us now: just senseless talking, nothing happening about the strongly needed reforms (education/worklaw/etc ...i can only talk for germany here). that together with the grown need for security after sep 11 brought the cattle in the arms of the right wings imo.

now i wouldn't vote for any right-wing at all but i somehow can understand that anti-political feeling at the moment. there's elections in germany in september and so far i can not find any politician/party that would earn it to get my voice. all just bunch of camera-smiling actors glued to their chairs. no concepts, no plans, just bla bla.:(

[Atarythm]

The truth of a predications depends to the interpretation of the user... ;)

[c s]

Originally posted by amble
if i take a look at those idiots ruling us now: just senseless talking, nothing happening about the strongly needed reforms (education/worklaw/etc ...i can only talk for germany here

no obviously you can't because you're a victim of propaganda slowly spreading through all the media. look at what is called "reform" today it's nothing but a step backwards. they kept their vocabulary from the time they wanted to change something - but they use it for an entirely opposite direction. they used to fight for peace and against weapons, now they promote using weapons for a strange kind of "peace". it's not any different with employment. they used to want to make it clear to the people that employers have to take responsibilty for the people they employ. now all they can think of is freeing the way for the employers and hope they do something good while they're totally out of control. like siemens just announced a positive result today - and at the same time that they're going to fire people. this is help at its best for people like le pen because if he speaks up against this, he isn't even telling a lie. of course he only uses it to get to his own aims.

[c s]

Originally posted by amble
that together with the grown need for security after sep 11 brought the cattle in the arms of the right wings imo.


sorry all i feel is a grown need to protect my civil rights.

[Big G]

"He whom would fight with monsters should see to it that he also does not become a monster."
Mr Nietzsche

[c s]

yeah and the longer you stare into the abyss the more the abyss starts staring into you... (also FN)

[baba]

This is a really simplistic attitude I know, but I can not understand why people do not just see each other as people. We are all people-pretty much the same hopes and fears where ever we come from, what ever we believe in etc

However, it is true - it also seems that we are monsters.

I never cease to be confused by right wing attitudes to immigration. i know the poilicies and reasons but on a deeper level i can not understand the motivations. i don't understand how a supposedly intelligent person can be a racist.

Hitler for instance- why Jews? Because of some childhood run in? Some petty jelousy?Some rebuke ?

[phdbob]

@baba

two main reasons may be:

FEAR/CRAVING/AVERSION (CONDITIONED BY SENSATIONS...PAIN/JOY)

EGO (I/ME/MY/MINE) COLLIDES WITH PHENOMENA THAT ARE NOT TO CONTROLL...LIKE MY BODY IS FALLING APPART WHEN IT´S GETTING OLD/ DISEASE...IT WON´T BEND TO MY WILL...THINGS HAPPEN YOU DON´T WANT...

there is a difference between INTELIGENCE/2nd HAND KNOWLEDGE (THINGS YOU HAVE BEEN TOLD/LIKE EG GOD/HELL/HEAVEN...) and REAL KNOWLEDGE BY EXPERIENCING...FIRST HAND INFORMATION...

[baba]

yea I know, but there is such a thing as self reflection. The ability to ask oneself the question "why do i hate the other?" "What is it about me that makes me intolerant?"

I guess self-reflection is a point that the Le Pen's of this world do not reach. He doesn't see his hatred as his problem but as his career.Unfortunaltly neither do a large number of french people.
They should call the national front 'the league for fucked up impotents with identity problems who need scapegoats to account for the fact that their mean spirited little lives are mediocre piles of shit'

Sometimes i feel like I am in living in a completely alien world...

[freshmint]

i think that this hate and sofore rise of fascism grows out of frustration.
which is present all over the world, but in other places than europe people are not so narrowminded and have a more natural relation/respect to other humans.

[Magnumforce]

every body is lazy immigrant scum!!!!

[professor]

i did not watch the news, so please tell me the result

[marcel]

result: chirac 82%
le pen 18%
in my opinion 18% too much

[professor]

yeag i agree with you definitively 18 % too much

[distruc]

Originally posted by Big G
"He whom would fight with monsters should see to it that he also does not become a monster."
Mr Nietzsche

aye-dark side of the human race-it's dangerous
to put oneself on a moral pedestal

[V Knid esq]

so, Austria, Italy, France... where next?

[distruc]

well-looks like blair wants to attach britain as a limpet on the fascist rock that is america anyway:(