Beware of dodgy promotors in Malta

[M H]

As some of you may have been aware, I played a gig in Malta in April.. The whole episode became a nightmare... Before I go any further, to distinguish him from any other promotors in Malta, who could well be sound, his name is Mario, he ironically runs a night called "Disorder" and going by my experience is not to be trusted.... I understand Cristian and Cutout have played for him before, I'm not sure if either had any problems, and I don't want to go badmouthing anyone really, but when there's no milk in the fridge for the baby, and we have over a grands worth of bills to pay, it gets a bit beyond a joke, especially when the guy has repeatedly said he's going to pay me, and never has....
the problems started at gatwick, I spent 3 hours at the ticket desk with them telling me there's no ticket for me.. after numerous calls to air Malta, it was finally sorted 10 minuits before the flight left.. I arrive at the other end to find my record box had been trashed... I had only recieved the flight details 24 hours before, which had left a lot of confusion in malta as to whether I was playing or not.. I should have never gone really, and now I cancel if I don't have the flight details at least 2 weeks before... As a result the club was empty, and so there was no money to pay me... I have been involved in promoting a fair few nights myself over the years, and rule number one is always make sure you have the money for your guest covered, ESPECIALLY if they are coming from abroad... I've seen the other side of the coin as well, playing around europe myself, and have a pretty fair idea of what's acceptable, I'm not one to charge outrageous fees...
Anyway, Mario said when he dropped me at the airport that he would at least sort me out something for my troubles, and pay the money into my bank account.. it's been over 2 months now, I've had a particuarly bad time of late, not getting paid for records done in the past, an advance for a considerable sum owed, and no money forthcoming... I sms Mario today, quite pissed off with the whole thing due to the lack of funds prevailing, and I get the distinct impression he never had any intention of paying me.... He seems to think that I somehow run up a £100 bar tab, which is an absolute load of crap (Anyone who knows me knows how much of a shandy drinking lightweight I am when it comes to alcohol), and in response to my fairly Lairy sms I'm getting back pure abuse:
I hope your record box breaks on every flight....... you ugly bastard

etc etc

The worst I have called him is a Liar (well, bullshitter), which is what he is, he said he would pay me and he didn't...

anyway, I'm sure you don't want to hear all that crap, I'm bored of telling it... Like I say, I don't want to badmouth anyone, I just want to warn anyone who is approached by this guy to steer well clear if they don't want to get ripped.... The techno scene in general is having enough trouble and strife without people being like this, I just want to make sure people are aware, and don't fall foul themselves....

Peace

Mark Hawkins

[Tomoki]

Oh damn, why are people so impudent and evil.

Hope you get your money Mark. But it sounds all not so realistic.

[jukka]

our man in malta (mux) should beat him up !!!

keep ya head up mark..things just can get better now !

[seismical]

shit, i dunno what id do if i lost my record bag.

good luck with everything mark.

c

[invisibleplanet]

it sounds as though both yourself and the promoter lost money on this venture, and maybe you both made mistakes after your disappointment with the way the event went.
perhaps u would be better to cut your losses in this instance, and chalk this one up to experience...

please excuse me for saying this, but i think to tar the Maltese Promoter as being dodgy is a tad unfair to both him and yourself. It may be that the venture was a tad too ambitious on both yours and the promoter's parts, or it maybe that there just wasn't enough people who had heard of u on the island. i'm sure that if u weren't previously warned that this guy was not to be trusted, then perhaps what happened between you and him was just a case of how communication can break down, where strangers and money are involved, and not as u suggest, indicative of a dodgy character!


sorry to hear there is no milk in the fridge for the baby though :(

[Weishaupt]

oh shit..im sorry to hear that , mark...i hope for ya, that will not repeat in the future.........
keep your head up......you are a cool guy with brilliant sounds!

[M H]

Invisible planet, leave your self righteous rantings at home, to be honest, what you just posted was really insulting and patronising....I didn't post this for you to quibble about it, the bottom line is I went to do a gig, and didn't get paid, the guy had his chance, I wasn't asking your opinion... Don't bother to argue back, you're on my ignore list anyway..
Sorry people, I just wasn't asking for someone who wasn't there, to start trying to tell me what's what with a situation...

[karitek]

i really have to disagree with you big time on this one IP. It is no fault of Mark that more people were not at that gig. he was promised a certain amount of money in exchange for playing, and he carried out his part of the bargain. It takes a lot of time and effort to travel to overseas gigs, and it meant that he (might have) had to turn down other gigs that would have paid. In a business where record labels just manage to break even, and artists rely on live gigs to support themselves, this is a very serious issue.

i really get angry when i hear stories of bad promoters. usually they are people who don't realize how much work goes into putting on a club night and get in over their heads. and it really sounds like this guy was like that, especially since he couldnt even manage to get your flights sorted til the last minute. had he thrown anything before?

it is part of the promoter's job (probably the hardest part) to have a feel for what their crowd knows about music, so that people will come to hear those that you book. so whether this was a problem with people not knowing Mark or not (i think it was most likely just poor promotion on the whole) is NOT mark's fault!

it must suck to go abroad, have no one come to see you (just makes you feel like shit - even if it is the promoter's fault for not promoting the party propperly) and then to not get paid on top of this!! you have every right to moan mark!!

anyhow, do you use contracts in your bookings or get any money in advanced to hold the date? you might think about that in the future... here are some pages that have advice on them:

http://www.musiclawadvice.co.uk/
http://www.nzmusic.org.nz/pag.cfm?i=672

sorry to hear this!

[karitek]

also, i think that issues like this need to be posted on the forum so that other artists dont get hurt.

[invisibleplanet]

i didn't blame mark
and for all your notices...this is a PUBLIC message board..
and i meant no insult to either Mark Hawkins, or the Maltese promoter by adding my opinion.

It's obvious you're upset, and big style money worries don't make for a good temper, so why not direct some of it at me. it may be cathartic :-p

i am not telling you 'what's wha't Mark, I'm looking at the situation u described to me, with another pair of eyes...MY EYES, and I gave u a little opinion. Your slur on this maltese promoter's character, and the fact that you're using Cristian Vogel's message board to air your grievance are two things YOU needn't have brought to our attention in quite this way. Have u emailed this promoter for an equally PUBLIC response? Were u hoping Mux would tell him about this topic?
How big do u think Malta is? A man can't wear a dress there and the whole island not know!

The truth is, you took a risk, both you and the promoter, and in these instances, you both made a loss, and it's probable your event wasn't insured against loss, so there's probably little other than small claims courts which could press for some recompense. I'm really sorry to hear that your Maltese gig wasn't forthcoming for you, but there's bound to be some gold to be made from this experience, even if all you personally gain is experience.

've got to say, that writing about it in erutufon is just opening yourself up for public comment. It's like the news 'ere, innit?

[jukka]

what kinda risk did mark took ?
beeing booked and not getting paid ?
the promoter have to have the money to pay the artists even if no one shows up at the party !!!!
what would you say if your boss tells you "oh we haven't had enough customers this month so i can't pay you anything for this month " ????you would never say "yay, that's okay_____".
same thing happened here !
and i do think this is a good place to post stuff like this (if really self expereinced and not told by a friend of a friend who has heard of)....so other artists are warned not to get ripped off !!
and whats you problem that mark posted this on cristians board ?
i don't think cris will have a problem with....................

[invisibleplanet]

²jukka: i guess it depends on the contract between the promoter and the artist have between them as to how the artist is paid.
if at any time the artist's payment is dependent on actually getting paying people in through the door, then there is a risk for the artist and the promoter in putting on the event.

²M H : i hope u enjoyed malta otherwise, cos i've heard it is a pretty place.

[M H]

Sorry IP, I generally don't agree with your opinions and, again, I don't here, and to be honest, don't want or care for your opinion... This is the last I'm going to say on the subject....
Apologies to Cristian and Emma if they don't feel this is relevent for the board, I simply want to inform people of my experience, and if the occation arises that people may be potentially getting involved with this guy, just for them to be aware what has happened in the past, so the same thing isn't repeated for someone else... I didn't ask for someone to be abusive to me via sms, if the guy had been honest with me and said "I'm sorry, I don't have the money, it's all gone wrong" I would have possibly accepted that....He made promises he couldn't keep, and that's wrong....
Again, sorry if anyone feels this is not relevent, but there's so many rip offs going on in the music "Industry" at the moment (Maybe it's always been like that), I just feel people need to stick together, keep each other informed on what's going on....

[Ruben A]

it´s really sad to hear, mark. I really don´t know how this normally works - though a lot of stories sound like this one! Damn, it can´t be true a promoter comes up with "ahrr, I have no money now, but I´ll pay you next week... (or so)".
When booking an artist you fucking have to pay the bill!! Sad if noone shows up - but that´s definately not the artists fault!!!!

It´s also a problem when asking for being payed forward... "how can we trust you´ll come and play for us!??"

Now it´s more - "How can I trust you´ll pay me for playing...!???"

hmmm....

irritating!

Hope you make it anyway .....!!!? :)

[owain_k]

Originally posted by Ruben A
When booking an artist you fucking have to pay the bill!!

Sad if noone shows up - but that´s definately not the artists fault!!!!



Spot on !

[karitek]

Originally posted by invisibleplanet
2jukka: i guess it depends on the contract between the promoter and the artist have between them as to how the artist is paid.
if at any time the artist's payment is dependent on actually getting paying people in through the door, then there is a risk for the artist and the promoter in putting on the event.


fyi, most of the time the artist sets a flat fee that is not dependent on getting people through the door. so mark took no risks.

[invisibleplanet]

yeah, that's how i have known it to work also. i did know that, but i've also heard of other arrangements too. i

've also heard my fair share of people being ripped too...promoters ripping dj, club management ripping promoters. on the otherhand, i've heard of promoters who have crippled themselves financially to ensure artists have been paid at events which have made a loss...j've heard of artists playing to a small but enthusiastic crowd of 20, i've heard of dj's playing to no-one and being paid, or playing to many, and not being paid! crikey! someone should write a book about it!

to be fair, i don't think these threads are such a great idea. by this i mean, u could at least write an article on your own site http://www.crime-productions.com and then put a link from no-future to that page! i don't care if several of u disagree with me, but it's just an opinion ok!! you have yours..i won't stop you!

i honestly don't think it's cool to use the no-future board to name and shame promoters, given that the musician who provides this board has already had dealings with the maltese promoter u named, and may still be on good terms with them, despite Mark Hawkins' current beef.

[Ruben A]

no

It can´t be that hard to follow the simple rules of booking...

[Mirsha]

I think regardless of how you look at it Mark was contracted to provide entertainment for a sum of money which has not been paid to him. Stuff like low turnout and so on is absoloutely nothing to do with Mark nor should it affect his payment unless he decided to take less on the spot to ease the burden on a pomoter.

Having no one show up at a club is indeed nasty. The first ever techno club I went to had about 10 people in it which was basicly the promoters and their mates and me (and I didn't know any of them at the time) and that was their second last ever night. I've seen my local have an abysmall turnout for Chris Liebing because there were four quality DJs on at different cubs that night. However in all cases the burden lies squarely on the promoters, they should have the money to cover a bad night kept in reserve.

[wheezer]

seeing as this is a meeting point of international artists, this is the perfect place to warn of dodgy promoters - I was stiffed pretty badly last month at a gig in Turku, which is just 2 1/2 hours away from here by train - on my way home I was thinking how hard it must suck to be stuck in some foreign country, preferably without having command of the local language, after a similar bender as mark went through.

from that viewpoint, this is a service to others here, seeing as the same promoter had two other board members over already, this also means that they can tell their side of the story, and because this is a public forum, the promoter could even show up himself and try to sort things out.

you're wrong on this one ip, there is no better place to pubish stories such as this one.

[invisibleplanet]

Originally posted by invisibleplanet
..this is a PUBLIC message board..

...........

Have u emailed this promoter for an equally PUBLIC response?

.........

've got to say, that writing about it in erutufon is just opening yourself up for public comment. It's like the news 'ere, innit?

[wheezer]

to be fair, i don't think these threads are such a great idea. by this i mean, u could at least write an article on your own site http://www.crime-productions.com and then put a link from no-future to that page! i don't care if several of u disagree with me, but it's just an opinion ok!! you have yours..i won't stop you!

[invisibleplanet]

*yawn*
furthermore....
it's cool to talk about being ripped off, and to caution against being ripped off, or to describe the circumstances surrounding the rip off, but hey! maybe it's not so cool to name names, especially if legal action ought to be the next step...
hmmm....
i think Mark ought to have a page on his website with his horror story on...and Mark, perhaps u could at least console yourself that by making public this horror tale, u caution others against putting themselves in a similar position.

² M H (and anyone else for that matter, a question: what would you advice would u give to other UK DJ's who were thinking of taking overseas bookings?


[incidently, whilst on the subject of dj's being fucked around, i noticed last week in a post on overloadmedia, that Laurent Garnier might have to cancel his US tour because France has been added to the US embassey list of dodgy countries since it didn't support the US inititiative during their campaign in Iraq, and his visa/work permit has been delayed insufferably, with things arriving at the last moment...i think he said it didn't look good from where he was sat, and he'd already invested alot in the tour already .]

[karitek]

Originally posted by invisibleplanet
2 M H (and anyone else for that matter, a question: what would you advice would u give to other UK DJ's who were thinking of taking overseas bookings?


Originally posted by karitek anyhow, do you use contracts in your bookings or get any money in advanced to hold the date? you
might think about that in the future... here are some pages that have advice on them:

http://www.musiclawadvice.co.uk/
http://www.nzmusic.org.nz/pag.cfm?i=672

[gunjack]

ok. i am going to have to pop back in just to say something here:

a performer is paid for his/her performance, not how many ppl his/her name got through the door.

any promoter who does what mark went through is indeed DODGY (to put it mildly) MH never even called the guy any names so unbunch your panties i.p.


as far as this being 'C. Vogels' website, fair enough, but if all the folks on this forum only ever posted about no future artists, this would end up like the dj rush forum with topics like "Vogel autograph addy please" etc. this is a community of like minded individuals, 85 percent of whom are artists.


I.P. telling mark not to post this here reminds me of a stalker jumping out of the bushes to tell someone not to park his car in her line of sight.

invisible planet was my first ever entry to the ignore list function, i wonder how many others have discovered this function for the first time through a desire to not be belittled or distracted by a person who MUST post in every thread... and whos 2000 + posts consist of nearly every thinly veiled premise she can think of to kiss brighton artist ass and make herself look 'cool'. i may be generalizing a bit, but you ppl know EXACTLY what i am talking about.

back on topic though, MH it sux when ppl like that waste your time and cost you money... there isnt much that can be done i suppose unless one doesn't mind resorting to violence.... i have been through the same with ppl in detroit..... gotta keep your head up bro! i hope something comes along to balance out the karmatic justice or even just make life a bit easier for you guys after all that. also spanx for the heds up on dis mario dood.

gunny

[Gameboy]

nothing will change, there is no point getting stressed about it.
it is the "music business"

[Andreas]

i say its mh obligation to post here and warn everybody about his experience. we have to stay "united" by giving each other info like this... and yes, the malta guy should by lynched. he took a risk and has to back it up by ensuring that he can pay the artist even if no people in the club! i could invite the whole world to dj at a party on the northpole and if no one comes, "oh sorry no one came, i cant pay you... this is not the red cross foundation!

[Annefrankingmachine]

Get Mux to cut the guys' achilles tendons with a pair of bolt croppers like they do in Glasgow.
"Sometimes you just got to stick with the old ways."

[Ruben A]

Originally posted by Andreas
i could invite the whole world to dj at a party on the northpole and if no one comes, "oh sorry no one came, i cant pay you... this is not the red cross foundation!

EXACTLY!

[decadnids]

Originally posted by Gameboy
nothing will change, there is no point getting stressed about it.
it is the "music business"

yup you got it - the music business, like most businesses has a huge quantities of fuck wits in it who are willing to fuck you every step you make.

[Tomoki]

Mark,as what kariteks links said my recommendation for the next deal with an unknown or untrustworthy looking guy is to make a waterproof contract, so that you can show it to the court if you not are getting paid.

It’s same with an employment contract:
You are raising a performance and the employer (in your case the promoter) must pay you.

It’s a very drastic handle but perhaps right and secure.

[bitch one]

Originally posted by Mirsha
However in all cases the burden lies squarely on the promoters, they should have the money to cover a bad night kept in reserve.

as with all forms of capitalism, capital begets capital. ie don't be a promoter unless you're a rich cunt.

[M H]

The problem is, you can have all the contracts you want, and still not get paid.. music lawyers are well expensive, and unless you're fighting for thousands of euros it's just not viable to take these people to court..... This is why I'm currently looking for a job, I just can't rely on music for an income, and this is the sorry stage it's come to... I've just been ripped off too many times on records etc... I'm at the stage where I've got a few more releases in the pipeline on other labels, once they're out of the way I think I'm only going to put out stuff on my own concerns... That way, I have a bit more of an idea of what's going on with the money.....

[animal night train]

asking for payment up front or a deposit is an option but the excuse is always that the money comes from the night itself so doesn't really exist until then.

i had this problem a couple of years ago in east Europe. the promoter of the party got wasted and buggered off without paying anyone. since then every time i've been back in the country he's given me £10 or something towards my fee, as other people in his local techno community were furious with him for fucking me around.

[phil]

Mark you got played for a fool my friend. the guy made you look like a mug. And you got your records fucked. Didnt the name of the country Malta give it away. its like doing a set in Kabul, the place isa dump. what u playing at? stick to playing down your local club. you should have known better mark, how old are you? 18? Mark. you need to sort you bloody life out mate.Im sorry to hear about not having milk for the kid.

[MUX]

i know i was supposed to be the first one to reply here.. but i really dont know what the fuck to say. to understand certain situations u have to live thru them.. and some explainations that need to be said cant be written on a public message board.

i am very very sorry MH, i tried to do my best to help out B4 he event.. and i clearly stated that the promoter is trouble but i gues afterwards, it's easy to sound 'wise'

it's a pity that i ended up not meeting you here, i could have turned the booking o a couple of days of pub-racket

phil: im ignoring your stupidity

[Annefrankingmachine]

are you gonna cut the bloke mux?

[phil]

yer, what u gunna do mux??!?!???

[Annefrankingmachine]

You should get everyone in malta to boycott events that are backed by this scoundrell, thus putting him out of the promoting business and allowing room for a more honest person to step in and take over.

[MUX]

everything from the point of view has been taken care off already

[Annefrankingmachine]

Or send one of those fuckin little elephants to his house like you did to me and grunder...
We lost our entire living room floor this weekend due to that little fucker.
We wanna put the little shit down but he's so cheeky and cute that we couldn't face it. We're currently trying to drive him out by banging saucepans together and filling the place up with mice. Trouble is the place is now full of fucking mice aswell and we have to always eat out.

[phil]

do a wheel-up on his decks when he plays a song

[Lady E]

1. thank you mark for alerting people to this promoter
cris has indeed played with the same bloke and his crew are obsessed with nazi memorabilia and somewhat unpleasant if it is the same guy and so we will never ever play for those people again.

2. of course people have every right to post such tales of woe on this board. there are always two sides the every story though . so readers should remember that. however i think mark was badly treated in this case. can i also point out that this is not simply 'cristian vogel's' forum. its called erutufon. it covers many things.

3. you cannot prevent such bad things taking place occasionally (usually it has to be said things like this occur in the US or France...two incredibly dodgy places for techno parties, in our experience). you have to accept that you win most and lose a few...its a pain when it happens, but its a question of trying to minimise the risks. sometimes its way better to accept the knock and put your energy into raising money elsewhere than the bitterness that a prolonged argument with a wanker can involve.

We work a lot with a big agent called Primary International. They represent everyone from Kylie to El-P and in big name cases the contract will hold water but for the kind of gigs we're doing , its wont mean shit most of the time. it can only really help you before you've played because then you have bargaining power. i would also strongly suggest 50% advance payments of fees transferred to your bank account before the show.

4. RE: invisibleplanet. she is allowed her opinion, it is sometimes perceived by the rest of the community as being wrong...same as the rest of you.

5. this has nothing to do with malta or Mux...jusy one of those unscrupulous promoters who unfortunately riddle the scene, internationally.

[phil]

thanks Emma, you really sorted my head out.

[Lady E]

thanks phil, but i doubt it.

one final point. dont pay for your own flight....always a bad move.

[M H]

Thanks Emma, and everyone for the support, and Props to MUX, he's been nothing but supportive in the whole episode... I didn't want to resort to the whole "Naming and shaming" thing, but I felt I had no other option, and other people had a right to know.... This should by no means reflect badly on other nights in Malta, I'm sure that many people go there to play gigs with no problem...
There is a possibility of returning there in the future, and I'm sure with proper arrangements it will be a blast....
Sadly though, it's a hard business to be in these days, some promoters can think you're being rude for asking for 50% up front or doing contracts... It's becoming a hard year this year, just to make ends meet, too many instances of getting screwed over... and talking to other people, who have been in the game for a similar amount of time as I have, have had a rough time too... you don't have so much bargaining power if you're not as known as the more established acts on the scene....

[MUX]

much appreciated :)

[Annefrankingmachine]

Yeah sorry MUX to refer to this unfortunate situation and yourself in the same sentence if you know what i mean, just coz you reside there.
It's would be the same as you asking me what i'm gonna do about the person who burn Brighton pier i guess.
Anyway i was a jokin like the bufoon.
Sorry to all for any offence.

[Reese]

Originally posted by M H
I didn't want to resort to the whole "Naming and shaming" thing, but I felt I had no other option, and other people had a right to know....


Personally, I'm glad you did. I would feel obligated to do the same as you, if I were to find myself in the same situation.

[Annefrankingmachine]

That's not to say the i've forgiven you for that fuckin lump of an elephant. I just home went on my lunch and the little shit's gone and trashed the neighbours garden. (she's not insured) Grunder's round there now trying to smooth it all over. He's tied the elephant to the pub next door and given it a bottle of strong barbituates with it's lunch. We're at a loss to know what to do next really. We've both realised that keeping the little beggar's not a very realistic option. Apparently there's a butcher up by the race course who might be able to "help out" (and earn us a few quid in the process) but i think we'd miss him. Could we send him back to Malta?

[MUX]

yes u can... but i heard greenpeace and wwf and scanning brighton already as we speak!
watch where u put the stamps... ok?
i guess around 80p postage is fine..

[karitek]

Originally posted by emma

3. you cannot prevent such bad things taking place occasionally (usually it has to be said things like this occur in the US or France...two incredibly dodgy places for techno parties, in our experience).

Especially NY!! Everyone here and their mother is a club promoter and most of them do it quite shittily. it's very very annoying.

[gunjack]

Los Angeles is the same mostly. "oh sorry, we didn't break even so now your screwed!"

[Gameboy]

http://www.nastylittleidiots.com

[MUX]

*wink*

[goA^de|iC]

*wink* :P

[MUX]

hehe hey delic....
you heard the score.. just like me :)

[goA^de|iC]

very interesting subject on our old friend ... greetz for you r 2000 mux :P (hu hassa)

[grobelaar]

It seems that when things go wrong promoters seem to think that the DJs are gonna a) be the easiest people to convince into doing them a favour, and worst b) the ones out of their list of debtors who will be easiest to stiff...

My advice: do not leave the venue until you have your money*. Stand their shouting and being really scary if need be, but make sure that they know that you are more important than giving some money to the postering teams/graphic designers/bar staff/bouncers/ printing companies...

*not even if it looks like it was a good night, I've heard of people getting ripped off at apparently succcessful gigs - you never know if the promoter has a small crack habit to support....

[Marolo]

I think if a promoter is honest he will pay the artist no matter what. Even it means paying out of his own pocket. There's no excuse really! Hope your luckier in the future Mark.

[bitch one]

lets face it getting paid for playin records...money for old rope innit?

get a proper job like me. i get paid to sit around typing stupid messages on here. :)

[wheezer]

bitch one, we working at the same company? lol

[M H]

gotta say the attractions of a regular pay packet are looking more tempting as time goes by... I'm currently going "No gigs in August.. Shhhiiiiitt!"

hard life, innit....

[karitek]

security and stability makes such a difference. i know it is a whole different can of beans, but i am much happier now since there is no chance of me getting booted out of the country for illegal work or not being let back in at immigaration.

what type of job are ya looking for, mark?

[M H]

God knows... one that's not TOO boring, but maybe that's a bit much to ask... I feel like I put all my eggs in one basket with the music thing...Maybe things will get better once the label gets going.. also the fact we're moving to the countryside soon dosn't help in some ways (Even though I really want to get out of the city) I can't move into anything semi-permanent work wise until I know where we gonna be living....

[bitch one]

plenty work down on the faaarmm arrrr.....:)

just get self sufficient like in the good life

or start a 'herb' garden!

[phil]

MH why dont u become a garage mc?

[deccard]

Originally posted by phil
MH why dont u become a garage mc?

why don´t u become black phil?

[phil]

i am black.

[emef]

black BLACK... the wing-ed ringmaster comes spraying black carrion blood to take me back to the devils hellmouth... come to chelmsford my pretty

[deccard]

Originally posted by phil
i am black.
hehe. ah ok. so ur a real nigga? with all that rap thing and gang bang going on...hm.. respect

[jukka]

Originally posted by M H
God knows... one that's not TOO boring, but maybe that's a bit much to ask... I feel like I put all my eggs in one basket with the music thing...Maybe things will get better once the label gets going.. also the fact we're moving to the countryside soon dosn't help in some ways (Even though I really want to get out of the city) I can't move into anything semi-permanent work wise until I know where we gonna be living....
its hard to imagine see you living on a farm ;)

[DsD]

@jukka: i bet he`ll live on aspecial farm to get everything "home grown" ;)


it`s funny that theire is a discusion about getting payed for a gig. if u can`t pay the dj book a cheaper one or play some tapes without dj but pay what u ordered. simple rule.

[Annefrankingmachine]

am i black?

[deccard]

dunno. just measure the size of ur left ear.

[Annefrankingmachine]

I measured it. (my left ear that is)
It's 6.72cm in height and 4.25cm wide.
The depth is hard to acertain but it's approximately 1.7cm.
Am i black?

[invisibleplanet]

Originally posted by deccard
dunno. just measure the size of ur left ear.

deccard...ur making me giggle alot over the last two days :)

[phil]

I really think that we have <b>all</b> learn't a huge lesson here, so lets move forward and put the bad times behind us. Lets put our best foot forward and march on, ready to face whatever trial life will throw at us. On our own.

[bitch one]

oops

[deccard]

Originally posted by Annefrankingmachine
I measured it. (my left ear that is)
It's 6.72cm in height and 4.25cm wide.
The depth is hard to acertain but it's approximately 1.7cm.
Am i black?

wait. my black book from johnny w. hity says no but to be more certain it recommends the jumptest.
jump 10 times up infront of a cop and scream "i want justice".
if he beats the shit out of u you should be black.
but no one can ever be sure (w. hity books are crap). so just learn to live with the question like i did.