is music free

[les diamond]

couldn't post a poll d'oh anyway you guys think we should just adapt to the filesharing boom and make all music free? performance is where the $$$ is in music, everybody knows that, so is it just a sham to charge ppl for (digital) music?

[Konx-om-Pax]

music as product is good to purchase.
i like artwork etc..

[V Knid esq]

Performance is only where the $$$ is if you are either a relentlessly gigging musician, like on tour your entire life with no time for family or anything else, or you are at the very top eg Madonna or AC/DC. Anywhere between that, tours barely, barely scrape a profit.

Abolish paying for music and you abolish the music industry, or make corporate patronage through advertising and sponsorship the only source of income. If that's what you want, cool. But don't fall for the rhetoric that "musicians can get paid other ways". They can't, there just isn't that much gig income to go round.

[soulcheck]

there's waaay to many musicians too.

[les diamond]

but most of us don't get paid shit off record sales anyway

[les diamond]

Performance is only where the $$$ is if you are either a relentlessly gigging musician, like on tour your entire life with no time for family or anything else, or you are at the very top eg Madonna or AC/DC. Anywhere between that, tours barely, barely scrape a profit.

i lived in spain and played one or two gigs a month a lived comfortably for 3 or 4 years man this is simply not true.

[Orang Utan]

most do it for fun surely?

[les diamond]

i am not saying abolish all pay for albums but make the albums available free on the web and the physical releases limited to those like konx etc who are willing to contribute...

a 12" single costs more in most places than folks make in several hours of working salary...

[les diamond]

most do it for fun surely?


this brings up a good point, did any of us get into this thinking I AM GONNA BE RICH!!! no, we did it because the music is fun to make and play and listen to.....

when literally thousands of artists' work lives or dies by the hand of a few dozen "experts" at old school vinyl distributors, something has got to give....

[les diamond]

a buddy from another board summed it up nice i think:


sell physical media and the experience of a live show -- give the data away for free, or i'm going to steal it to figure out whether or not i want to pay for the physical media and the experience.

[Orang Utan]

this brings up a good point, did any of us get into this thinking I AM GONNA BE RICH!!! no, we did it because the music is fun to make and play and listen to.....

when literally thousands of artists' work lives or dies by the hand of a few dozen "experts" at old school vinyl distributors, something has got to give....

you don't need to put your music out on vinyl anymore though
most electronic music producer have a very exclusive audience so it would be impossible to make a living from selling records anyway.

[Yer_Maw]

Did anyone less than big bands ever make money out of being on a label?

I know guys who were signed to bmg and lived with their mums.
I know another guy that owes a label £20,000.

maybe thats the point.

[les diamond]

well the point i have been trying to make is that vinyl distributors have WAY too much control over content and as a result the credibility of the artist. if i stopped putting out vinyls tomorrow i would be somehow less credible in the eyes of many, but why am i still putting out vinyl if the distro is always mucking about with the final product.... it is an absurd amount of control in what i call the "distributor dictatorship"

[Hectic Cum Balthazar]

Brian Eno talks shit sometimes, but this I agreed with:

"I think records were just a little bubble through time and those who made a living from them for a while were lucky. There is no reason why anyone should have made so much money from selling records except that everything was right for this period of time. I always knew it would run out sooner or later. It couldn't last, and now it's running out. I don't particularly care that it is and like the way things are going. The record age was just a blip."

bye bye blip

That's not to say I think all music should be free, there should just be respect for music, sometimes that means paying sometimes it doesn't. The Oink type model just doesn't have respect for music however you look at it and whatever the individual members views are.

[les diamond]

spot on.

[Spandex]

Ar.. tho i think it's a bit of a false dichotomy there... that either u have an age of records where everyone (Eno knows) makes LOTS of money... or else nobody can live off music. and I agree with knid that it won't be "gig or don't make money".

the music itself isn't free. good music will always have real value because it takes time, talent and creativity to produce. at least until someone builds a computer that can churn out brilliant music. and if it could do that, it'd probably want something in return anyway :)

[Yer_Maw]

Brian Eno talks shit sometimes, but this I agreed with:



bye bye blip

That's not to say I think all music should be free, there should just be respect for music, sometimes that means paying sometimes it doesn't. The Oink type model just doesn't have respect for music however you look at it and whatever the individual members views are.

Yeah but does that mean something that is technically very easy be stopped to maintain the music industry?

[Spandex]

Maybe he just meant records specifically.. the physical medium the music is on. Is that quote quite old? Was it from a time when it was actually worth pointing out that "record sales are declining"?

That's the most sensible interpretation of it I can think of. And the bloke's not stupid :)

[Spandex]

oh i dunno. but i'm pretty sure that, since any human has had time to do something other than hunt/gather, there's been people who specialise in making music and who get something in return for that. if only a better chance of humping someone.

[Hectic Cum Balthazar]

I don't intergree

[Orang Utan]

we should all pay higher taxes and musicians should receive a stipend

[thembuzz]

apologies in advance to many of you here, but i don't think labels and distributors are really needed any more. they were when pressing, promotion and distribution were restricted to the physical realm, but the internet should free artists to take control of these things themselves. i'd like to see a situation where musicians become entirely independent

it won't happen, of course

[Spandex]

Yeah this whole endlessly repeated debate is all caused by the fact that distributing info involved money, logistics and was big business etc and then, almost overnight, it became essentially free.

The real question is less about the value of music and musicians and more about whether/why/how the now obsolete bit of the industry is going to keep making money.

I reckon ignoring that shit makes yr opinions on this about as interesting as Lily Allens's.

[Algy]

Personally - and I'm a bit weird with stuff like this - I like to pay for music ... I think it's only fair that people who produce something I like should get something back for my enjoyment.

Now, I do have a problem with not making that music available to everyone (ie vinyl only) ... so free in the sense that everyone has access to it - yes. Free in the sense that people shouldn't respect the time and effort someone has put in to making it - no.

[les diamond]

apologies in advance to many of you here, but i don't think labels and distributors are really needed any more. they were when pressing, promotion and distribution were restricted to the physical realm, but the internet should free artists to take control of these things themselves. i'd like to see a situation where musicians become entirely independent

it won't happen, of course



ANDY!!!!!!!!! :illin:

[les diamond]

level the fucking playing field!!! and it aint like i am some mp3 jock man who never had a vinyl out and doesnt live off those small advances, but it is just the healthiest thing for music!!!!

[thembuzz]

that's what i reckon. filesharing won't destroy music, but it might destroy the commercial distribution channels. i know some people here have interests there, but i don't think it'd be a terrible thing for musicians

the argument that the industry most often uses, that 'stealing' music is tantamount to stealing bread out of musicians' mouths is rank fucking hypocrisy. as if the industry ever gave a fuck about its artists' welfare

[Orang Utan]

http://www.globalbydesign.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/groundhog_day.jpg

[les diamond]

as if the industry ever gave a fuck about its artists' welfare



:D

[les diamond]

http://www.globalbydesign.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/groundhog_day.jpg



fucking idiot bro. we are about to see a huge shift in the aformentioned "blip" and you will have made fun of it like a cynic. i only use this site because i love music and there are many good musicians here. so yea i gives a fuck, strange huh? music is obviously to be delivered as the concept comes, not filtered through a bunch of sales nazis. survival of the fittest or whatever you call it, the cream will rise to the top again and the medium, record, cd mp3 cassette fucking 8 track will remain but a footnote. vinyl purism is a vice i can no longer afford. and 80% of the world live in countries with no "vinyl industry" so to speak of. i want to reach more people than just purists of black plastic discs.

[notorious J.I.M]

I'm a Luddite who still buys music in physical formats and also digitally. I have no problem paying to 'consume' music this way because I rarely go to see 'live music' anyway. If the option of buying physical formats was taken away I would still pay for downloads because I like to get digital music in a lossless format. If artists want to give away music in lower quality formats such as mp3 then that's fine too but there's no point getting annoyed about people sharing these. It's like the old home taping argument, if someone wants to listen to a shit third or fourth generation copy of something then go for it. If like me you are really in to music then eventually you will want to hear the music in high fidelity and you should have to pay something to the artist for this. If you are not prepared to do that then you probably think it's OK to shoplift too and should be punished appropriately if caught.

[Rhys]

My main beef with illegal downloading is that it devalues music and makes it too disposable. When you can potentially download any piece of music ever made within minutes, if something isn't floating your boat on the first few listens, chances are you'll probably just listen to something else instead.

When i look back to my musical formative years, when i first started to listen to more experimental stuff in my teens, i only persevered with some albums i've since grown to love because i'd spent 12 quid (not a insignificant amount at that age) or whatever on them.

[les diamond]

My main beef with illegal downloading is that it devalues music and makes it too disposable. When you can potentially download any piece of music ever made within minutes, if something isn't floating your boat on the first few listens, chances are you'll probably just listen to something else instead.
.



but thats what it is now! any piece of music can be on your HD in a matter of minutes! get used to it! :-p

[thembuzz]

My main beef with illegal downloading is that it devalues music and makes it too disposable. When you can potentially download any piece of music ever made within minutes, if something isn't floating your boat on the first few listens, chances are you'll probably just listen to something else instead.

When i look back to my musical formative years, when i first started to listen to more experimental stuff in my teens, i only persevered with some albums i've since grown to love because i'd spent 12 quid (not a insignificant amount at that age) or whatever on them.

i've thought a lot about that myself, and it is a shame, yeah. but on the other hand, i now have almost instant access to millions of recordings. i've got into much more experimental music in these last few years than i did when the risk of not liking an album meant blowing 10% of my disposable income into thin air. and consequently, when i do buy records now, my money's going to artists who need it most

[Orang Utan]

a lot of the craziest records i listened to as a youth, i borrowed and taped off friends or from the record lending library. 'file-sharing' has been around since cassettes.

[Orang Utan]

fucking idiot bro. we are about to see a huge shift in the aformentioned "blip" and you will have made fun of it like a cynic. i only use this site because i love music and there are many good musicians here. so yea i gives a fuck, strange huh? music is obviously to be delivered as the concept comes, not filtered through a bunch of sales nazis. survival of the fittest or whatever you call it, the cream will rise to the top again and the medium, record, cd mp3 cassette fucking 8 track will remain but a footnote. vinyl purism is a vice i can no longer afford. and 80% of the world live in countries with no "vinyl industry" so to speak of. i want to reach more people than just purists of black plastic discs.

indeed, i was just pointing out that i'm sure i've read this debate before on here

[Spandex]

Yeah. It's got the same again.

[don___quixote]

indeed, i was just pointing out that i'm sure i've read this debate before on here


i don't believe it - have we?

[soulcheck]

so, finally what's better vinyl or mp3?

[les diamond]

i think we have come to the conclusion that we should stop focusing so much on the way music is delivered and instead focus on how to survive off it and let it prosper without ruining it's free form nature. i started this thread not to repeat a tiered arguement but to actually get opinions on both sides of the debate for a project i am working on.... so thanks everybody (except orang *shakes fist) for opinions etc.... i am trying to work out how to protect artistic freedom, reach wider audiences and still survive off this shit, it's fucking tough as you can imagine...

[don___quixote]

so, finally what's better vinyl or mp3?


the real people do it on tape or hurdy gurdy anything else is a fucking sell out and not true to the original Aberflyarf-trio.

[Orang Utan]

i think we have come to the conclusion that we should stop focusing so much on the way music is delivered and instead focus on how to survive off it and let it prosper without ruining it's free form nature. i started this thread not to repeat a tiered arguement but to actually get opinions on both sides of the debate for a project i am working on.... so thanks everybody (except orang *shakes fist) for opinions etc.... i am trying to work out how to protect artistic freedom, reach wider audiences and still survive off this shit, it's fucking tough as you can imagine...
you're such a touchy so-and-so

[Spandex]

He's very mangry.

[platinum ray]

just like any art form, music doesn't fit easily into the abstraction of capital return. as long as people strive to receive money for art there'll always be a discrepancy of interests that isn't easily reconciled

on the notion of a formatting blip, I think Eno is spot on

[Spandex]

I think he is too.. but I think it's a trivial point that you could make about player pianos, court composers, sheet music etc.

It's just a way of saying "the medium and the distribution method are changing again" and I think he's managed to lend a superficial weight to it by being humble about the fact that he won't be coining it so much... which is easy to do after you've got paid for a U2 album :)

[les diamond]

you're such a touchy so-and-so


you take that back! i am not a so-and-so!

[Loz]

on the notion of a formatting blip, I think Eno is spot on

it's easy for Eno to say all these as some elder sage or something when he's already made all the money he'd need.

[Hectic Cum Balthazar]

it's easy for Eno to say all these as some elder sage or something when he's already made all the money he'd need.

only because *you* find it hard to think of music out of that context...

[thembuzz]

Yeah. It's got the same again.

alright, the labels will all stop operating and move into producing extreme porn and human meat, taking the next generation of x-fodder with them into both. happy now?

[AVX23]

I guess I'm pretty lucky, I've pretty much always managed to make most of the projects I do worthwhile in some shape or form, wether that's meant giving music away for free or selling it.

I think a lot of people moan about low sales and stuff just don't realise that the recording industry is intensely competitive and the market changes fluidly, peoples changing tastes make it very hard to predict where sucesses might be and a lot of people struggle with that and their frustration normally turns to anger and resentment towards those who do seem to keep afloat (normally the attitude is that they are sucking cock, selling out, rolling in money/whatever.)

I've noticed a few labels and individuals who seem to want to superimpose the way the market was ten or twenty years ago - during the golden age of for example techno and electronic selling bucketloads onto todays model but this simply isn't going to work - things have moved on and what people need to grasp is that underground, electronic music is never going to be a moneyspinner - it's just a bonus when it is. Apart from anything else - this whole - I can still be underground and use that as my niche whilst selling in a corporate style (lots of advertising, spam, generally throwing shit in people's faces and using named support to shift units) is totally false - look up underground in the dictionary - see if any of it talks about spamming the fuck outta myspace to sell your product on the back of a Laurent Garnier quote are listed as definitions.

Some artists I know who do keep afloat - tend to do it by working other jobs to support their music, this is what I've done for ten years, and even though I do get the odd big paycheck from music, it tends to be doing stuff other musicians might find 'uncool' or boring - like working in comunity arts or producing kids songs, radio jingles, blips and bloops for websites etc.

I'd much rather keep it like this, If I wanted to try and make money out of techno - I'd have to press 1k - 10k in units to bring the margins down and I fully appreciate that there aren't 1k-10k people in the world who will buy my music given the competition and the fact that a lot of kids and adults who listen to techno don't have unlimited cash to buy vinyl.

But this doesn't mean the whole game is fucked, it's healthier than ever in fact, and I personally feel that the bubble bursting has driven a lot of the wannabe's and fakers away from the scene - leaving it to the people who genuinely care about the music to keep going on a self funded basis to keep the sound alive.

People like Carl Craig and Rober Fripp have a lot of good encouraging things to say about this sort of thing and always have a lot of praise and respect for the people driving the scene, I think more people should look at the scene they are part of and ask themselves - is underground mentality really going to fit with corporate music industry values - the answer in my book is no and it never should or it compormises the artistic integrity of the material and therefore - If you wanna conform to that model - learn to sing and get on x-factor cos you ain't going to enjoy the thankless tasks of being an underground pioneer and we don't particularly wanna hear you bitch about it when the big money doesn't come in or you loose 7-10 grand on producing stuff that no one wants or needs.

So yeah - for me music is a luxury item, built on ideas, this is always gonna be a scetchy point in your buisness plan if this is the way you want to go, and the situation is even more hostile when you try and work that into an underground context.

It was a very sad day for me when I read a recent Landstumm interview where he talks of Mike paradinas 'getting sales'.

I don't see how that can be seen as a pinnacle of sucess in an underground context - the fact that Mike has struggled away against the grain and pushed some truly groundbreaking music would be more what I seen as a defining quality of that particular label.

I talk to a lot of people with similar attitudes - they talk of high exposure, maximizing sales potential - all this nice sparkly buisness chat which I'm more used to hearing coming out of the mouths of corporate cocksuckers.

And I ask myself - where's the punk attitude ? Wheres the lack of compromise ? Wheres the underground spirit here ? And sadly I think - it's just not there, but then the same people wonder why they can't 'shift units' to the kids.

The answer is that they've become completely detatched from the 'market' they were trying to serve simply by seeing it as a market and not an art movement.

The kids want something they can buy into, but not just for the purpose of lining the pockets of the artists and recording execs and I think a major problem with electronic stuff today is that people enter it thinking thye are joining the recording industry when they aren't - they are simply exploiting an art movement for their own purposes, and this is really obvious to the 'kids' who will simply ignore it, much to the despair of the artist involved.

So my summarised answer is - be real about it, and you will be sucessful on your own terms, but if you try and play that whole game as a techno DJ or act - then by default - you ain't keeping it real and you can't expect people to give you their loyalty.

[thembuzz]

word

[M H]

apologies in advance to many of you here, but i don't think labels and distributors are really needed any more. they were when pressing, promotion and distribution were restricted to the physical realm, but the internet should free artists to take control of these things themselves. i'd like to see a situation where musicians become entirely independent

it won't happen, of course

had this thought in my head for a while myself, particuarly since giving way my album and considering what to do with my most recent batch of tunes - I have a whole e.p. ready to go with remixes from Spandex, Birken and Vadz which I've been hanging on to in the vain hope of getting it out on plastic, but there is no interest in it from the physical labels really as it's not Dubstep, minimal, schranz or real warp style IDM - so maybe I will give it away for free soon..

the current "digital distribution" BS situation will only continue whilst musicians continue to support it - why bother to support it when there isn't so much to lose (50 quid a release if you are lucky) and you're gonna get more downloads if you give it away for free?

I really like the idea of this very limited vinyl release like the new CV record auctioned on ebay tho - that is a great concept...

[M H]

@AVX23: yeah, word.

[emef]

i'm looking to go back to the 18th century model
benefactor vibez
you can have all my new tracks if you give me food, vodka, decent bed to sleep in
and occasionally take me to a party


i dont buy records anymore
i do buy a lot of digital tracks
was never hooked on the formats
couldn't give a shit if it comes on a piece of round plastic with a pretty picture on the cover
its the music i want
and wavs/mp3s are well easy to store
no shelfs
ace

buying the one or two digital tracks off an ep/lp is much cheaper than having to pay for the whole ghastly vinyl release

[M H]

i'm looking to go back to the 18th century model
benefactor vibez
you can have all my new tracks if you give me food, vodka, decent bed to sleep in
and occasionally take me to a party

well, that's what happens when you gig, innit...

[Loz]

only because *you* find it hard to think of music out of that context...

I don't actually. Music is my hobby because I know I won't make any money from it. But a lot of people want to make money from being in a band, and presumably Eno was/is one of those people.

[The Physicist]

is it free? sometimes...

It needs to be, because i can't afford to play what i like. The whole model is flawed. Not to say i wouldn't mind making a buck right now. I love vinyl but paying for digital releases is far more atttractive! As long as they are WAV..

[The Physicist]

i'm looking to go back to the 18th century model
benefactor vibez
you can have all my new tracks if you give me food, vodka, decent bed to sleep in
and occasionally take me to a party


i dont buy records anymore
i do buy a lot of digital tracks
was never hooked on the formats
couldn't give a shit if it comes on a piece of round plastic with a pretty picture on the cover
its the music i want
and wavs/mp3s are well easy to store
no shelfs
ace

buying the one or two digital tracks off an ep/lp is much cheaper than having to pay for the whole ghastly vinyl release

My thoughts exactly! Make what you can of it.

[Loz]

I'd be upset if the world went digital only releases. I like having something in my hand when I'm listening to the music, mp3s, flacs and wavs just don't feel real enough for me.

[emef]

i used to feel like that about vinyl but dont anymore
the music coming outta the speaker is the same

the best thing about digital releases is if you dont buy it the week it comes out its still gonna be there later... non of that local shop only got 5 copies and now its sold out of its limted 300 vinyl pressing bullshit

[Loz]

yeah, that's very true

there's something about mp3s that is quite faceless, though

imagine if the only records you could ever buy were white labels... just not as good.

[emef]

i dunno about them being faceless
i buy new tunes by people i haven't heard of before, go on their websites, find out more about them etc

[Loz]

yeah, you can do all that

but, at least for me, nothing beats a record with fantastic design, sleeve art, a booklet, something like that.

[emef]

fair do's

[M H]

I'd be upset if the world went digital only releases. I like having something in my hand when I'm listening to the music, mp3s, flacs and wavs just don't feel real enough for me.

you could always burn it on to cd and print out the artwork and put it in the cd case - then you'd have something to hold ;)

[Spandex]

I'm a hoarder. I love having a physical thing. I have many unopened CDs n a few vinyls of things that I only ever play the MP3 of.

[M H]

apparently it's "Damaging to the scene" if you give your music away for free :D
jesus...

[les diamond]

jesus ain't got nothing to do with it hahaha

[sniffio]

music is
$

Health Care is
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $

Rent is
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Food is
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


Computer is
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$

Air is
. . . $?

Playing an instrument
.

Teasing my dog
.

Transportation
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$

Information Technology
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Power
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$


I'm sorry, but music is costing less than a tampon ?

[Hectic Cum Balthazar]

new or secondhand?

[sniffio]

I've got to go check the vending machines.

[sniffio]

@AVX23: yeah, word. very well put.

I dunno,
I really think there is a high chance that
we're going to have a cable sticking out from our heads in the near future.
Form of art and entertainment can become much more blurry.
The thought might be a BS, but I dunno any more.

Meanwhile, here's some one without the cables.

Louise! Louise! Louiseaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!
yarghh...uh...aaahah-! AaAAAAA!!! LOUISELOUISELOUISEaaaaAAAAaaa! !!
Ae...*sniff*sniff*! *sniff*sniff*! sssssaaahsssssaaah.. smells good.... *sniff*
*gasp*! I can haz sniffsniff pink blonde hair de Louise Francoise?! *sniff*sniff*! Aah!
No! I want fluffing! fluff! fluff! Hair hair fluff fluff! Scratch scratch fluff fluff... Kyunkyunnkyui!!
Louise-tan was so kawaii in vol.12 of the novels!! AaaAA...AAA...AhAaAAA!! FaaAAAnng!
Congrats on the 2nd season of the anime Louise-tan! AaAAAAA! So cute! Louise-tan! Kawaii!AaaAAA!
2nd volume of the comics were grea...nnNrAGGggghHH!! Nyaaaaaargh!! UGyaaaAAAAA!!!
Nnnnnnyyyyuuuurrrrgggghhhh!!! Comics...................... AREN'T reality!!! ?...what about the novels and the anime....
LOUISE I S N' T R E A L????? AAAAArgggghhHH!!! Uwaaaaaaannn!!
NononononoNONONONONO! EEeeeeaAAAA!!!! HGGGGrrrrruuyynnnnnNN!!! Halkeginiaaaaaa!!
You! BASTARDS! I'm quitting! I'm QUITTING REALIT...Y....huh!? She's...looking? Louise-chan on the cover is looking at me?
Louise on the cover IS looking at me! Louise... at me! Louise-chan in the pictures in the book are looking at me!!
Louise-chan in the anime is talking to me!!! Phew... reality ain't so bad after all!
Yessssss! Wheeeee!! YEAH!!! I have Louise!! I've done it Ketty, I can do it alone!!!
C..comic... Louise LOUISE-CHAAAaaaaaAAaaAAAN!!!!!!!! HyaaAAAaaaAaaaAAaA!!!!!
Ahahaah...ahahaaahhhhahaAnn! Si, Siesta!! HenriettaaaAAAAAAaAA!!! TabithaaAAAAA!!
u....uuuu..*sniff*sniff*uuuUUU !!! May my love reach Louise!! May my love reach Louise of Halkeginia!

[emef]

i'm actually suspicious of music people give away for free
if its by someone i dont know i have to be persuaded i'll like it before i waste the 3 minutes downloading their probably rubbish free release

i'm pretty happy paying/downloading music from juno/beatport etc
its cheaper than physical music so it still feels like i'm getting a good deal just buying the single trax i like

if people tell me their music is worth nothing upfront, i usually agree with them without bothering to download and listen to it

[M H]

i'm actually suspicious of music people give away for free
if its by someone i dont know i have to be persuaded i'll like it before i waste the 3 minutes downloading their probably rubbish free release

i'm pretty happy paying/downloading music from juno/beatport etc
its cheaper than physical music so it still feels like i'm getting a good deal just buying the single trax i like

if people tell me their music is worth nothing upfront, i usually agree with them without bothering to download and listen to it

did you think that about my album?

[sniffio]

http://designyoutrust.com/wp-content/uploads7/waldo1.jpg

[emef]

did you think that about my album?

i know your past music so i know your new music is always worth a listen

[les diamond]

i feel you emef. i get TONS of free releases via myspace as promos or whatever and i never even listen to them.... firstly they are labels with names like "electronic pulse records" or some shit......nad i know its pure doof hisss doof hiss techno..... but on the other side...... if somebody sends me a free hip hop/glitch thing i almost always listen right away..... i think it has to do more with HOW they give it to you not THAT they give it to you....

[Yer_Maw]

i thought myspace was just millions of bedroom musicians and promotors telling each other about releases/nights they wont go to.

[The Physicist]

If you make something good and you give it away for free, it would take you ages to get noticed but wouldn't your recognition become exponential (as long as you have raw talent and keep making good stuff) without having to shove your tracks in people's faces on myspace and such websites?

[Hectic Cum Balthazar]

If you make something good and you give it away for free, it would take you ages to get noticed but wouldn't your recognition become exponential (as long as you have raw talent and keep making good stuff) without having to shove your tracks in people's faces on myspace and such websites?

in theory

but try listing ten artists who have done this that people on here will recognise...

[thembuzz]

i thought myspace was just millions of bedroom musicians and promotors telling each other about releases/nights they wont go to.

yeah, pretty much

[M H]

i thought myspace was just millions of bedroom musicians and promotors telling each other about releases/nights they wont go to.

it is... what does that have to do with giving away music for free though other than they all do it? does it mean everyone who gives music away for free is a bedroom musician who spams about their music on myspace?

I remember having an argument on this very same topic (giving music away for free - not spamming on myspace) with Decadnids on here about 7 years ago, and I was firmly on the other side of the fence- I would have been at the time, I was hammering out a 12" about every 6 weeks at that point - But there are a fair few points he raised at the time which, on hindsight make a lot of good sense, a lot more sense to me now than they did then..

And also, I'm sure that there are a fair few artists around these days who wouldn't be around now had they only tried the sending out demos path - sometimes, if a sound is particularly new or fresh, a grass roots interest is needed before any labels sit up and take notice, especially if it's a kind of music which seems to be of no commercial value i.e. doesn't sit in a pigeon-hole or easily marketable genre..

That said, spamming people on Myspace about your latest Fruity Loops creation probably isn't a sure fire route to success...

[Yer_Maw]

Its just i feel sorry for folk really trying to get people to notice them.

Anyway, if i ran a label id say buy the mp3 get a free tshirt, stickers, etc. and work the numbers so you make a profit that way and still getting to make music. Independent labels are probably better suited to this.

[thembuzz]

nah, it's a sure-fire route to the trash bin through my inbox

[M H]

Its just i feel sorry for folk really trying to get people to notice them.


yeah, but anyone with a brain knows that myspace is no way to get music noticed....

making a lot of good music is generally a good way to get noticed, although admittedly getting the right people to hear it is a must - I guess for techno these days, the only way is to start your own label thing AND get a residency in a club... you need grass roots support...

[soulcheck]

why start a label? I mean what advantage does owning a label give to an artist?

[thembuzz]

community, i suppose

[Orang Utan]

perhaps people should pay to not hear music

[Hectic Cum Balthazar]

why start a label? I mean what advantage does owning a label give to an artist?

"I like these 2 tracks but those 3 aren't very good. I don't want to put track XYZ on the A1 I want to put ABC followed by GHI. I'm going to try and get your favourite track remixed by that artist who you are very ambivalent about." etc. etc. etc.

[soulcheck]

being a cunt that is :) just like I imagined

[M H]

why start a label? I mean what advantage does owning a label give to an artist?

Possibly vinyl is a better platform to attempt to get people to listen to your music than myspace?

plus if you are the artist throwing your own money away on a label, no-one else is there to tell you that the high hats are too loud, or that "people don't really buy that kind of thing"..

[Hectic Cum Balthazar]

being a cunt that is :) just like I imagined

oh don't get me wrong, I didn't say I don't do it ;)

[platinum ray]

I imagine it helps to be affiliated with a label and have a steady output of releases if you want to get to play at shows and festivals

could be the exception that proves, but I definitely listened to and value the Jeremiah Jae thing that was given away for free recently, it came with a recommendation from Flying Lotus tho

[M H]

Flying Lotus I always thought, with a name like that, really they should make Goa Trance..

[les diamond]

steve flylo is a "he" not a "they"...

[thembuzz]

i like artist names that don't evoke their music. cannibal ox is a good one. i suppose hand on the plow is too. i've been told by more than one person (ie, 2) that ultrafoetus sounds like the name of a metal band. that's why i know i've got some shit, yo

[M H]

steve flylo is a "he" not a "they"...

Shows how on the ball I am, eh?

[mdk]

i like artist names that don't evoke their music. cannibal ox is a good one. i suppose hand on the plow is too. i've been told by more than one person (ie, 2) that ultrafoetus sounds like the name of a metal band. that's why i know i've got some shit, yo

maybe you're onto something, i thought the words from that video thing you posted would make great grindcore lyrics. or you would need your own genre. something like GRINDHOLE.

[mdk]

it'd probably sound a bit like this

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/gxsE69fUECU&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/gxsE69fUECU&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[les diamond]

Shows how on the ball I am, eh?

"on the ball" on your honeymoon? sure hope not hehehe

[thembuzz]

haha! i'll die incomplete if the grindhole genre never takes off