The Rules of Attraction [Archive]

penciLneck

29th April 2003, 09:07

Yes Both are good - Love all the backwards bits in Rules of Attraction and the female lead :) The story in Adaptation is great as is Nic Cage's portrayal of twin brothers. Both have a few surprises in store - especially the fact that Dawson from limp teen angst drama is in Attraction.

Lady E

29th April 2003, 09:35

ive read all B.E.E books and havent yet seen a film adaptation...generally i think there are no films made of books that improve upon or are equal to the book, apart from 'one flew over the cuckoo's nest', 'the shining' and 'carrie'...maybe there are more but i cant think of one...

i will watch the rules of attraction but i hate james van der beek's eyebrows...

also did anyone else hear this story that donna tartt (the secret history, the little friend) was actually B.E.E? i thought that for ages, especially after reading 'Rules of...' (which is quite an early book of his) because a direct reference to the plot of 'Secret History' is in it, no one had seen Donna Tartt, its a bit of a B.E.E. style name...but anyway, they are two separate people in the end.

thrilling, non?

penciLneck

29th April 2003, 09:56

also did anyone else hear this story that donna tartt (the secret history, the little friend) was actually B.E.E? i thought that for ages, especially after reading 'Rules of...' (which is quite an early book of his) because a direct reference to the plot of 'Secret History' is in it, no one had seen Donna Tartt, its a bit of a B.E.E. style name...but anyway, they are two separate people in the end.

Crazy Rumour - secret history was one of my faves - but could never have thought that 'psycho' Ellis was responsible for it!
Reading Her new one at the moment 'the little friend' as well as dark materials - I know it's bad, but I usually start a book, think wow this is good, then leave it, read another 5 books and go back to it.

penciLneck

29th April 2003, 09:57

btw - how could you say that 'one flew over the cuckoo's nest' was improved on by the film - film was good yes but the writing is so amazing in the book.

bitch one

29th April 2003, 10:02

Originally posted by emma
.generally i think there are no films made of books that improve upon or are equal to the book, apart from 'one flew over the cuckoo's nest', 'the shining' and 'carrie'...maybe there are more but i cant think of one...

i think as a general rule, if the book is not that great, you can improve on it. if it's a great novel, the film will disappoint. i think loads of great films are based on books which are not that great (like stephen king books)

my girlfriend went to see that film and she said it put her off sex. however later on that evening she apparently changed her position somewhat. ahem.

Lady E

29th April 2003, 10:04

yes sorry - i deleted that one flew over the cuckoo's film and book nest were a rare example of being equally as good. i love them both very much

re: stephen king - au contraire bitch one. i think he is an exceptional writer. reading his books is a total treat for me...especially 'the shining' and 'carrie' - both really quite amazingly well written. ive read loads, even recent ones like 'dreamcatcher' and 'insomnia' which are a bit more abstract plot-wise but still good...i bet the book of dreamcatcher is way better than the current film.

penciLneck i do that with books too - although i have to say i was a bit disappointed by the little friend...i wont say anymore, see what you think.

im reading a book about the pet shop boys 'literally' and 'from an occult diary' by strindberg for the second time. feeling anxious as i dont have anything planned for my next book....maybe 'the moonstone' by wilkie collins for a bit of victorian thriller fun.

bitch one

29th April 2003, 10:07

i thought american psycho was pretentious shite. a pattern in my book taste is developing here, after i say the same about will self. well, my favourite author is john steinbeck. i like plain english.

Lady E

29th April 2003, 10:13

i love john steinbeck too. i havent read him for years but my favourite was the interlinked short stories in 'the pastures of heaven'

i like all sorts. my favourite ever writers are the Bronte sisters. favourite book: Jane Eyre
but everyone should read Wuthering Heights. its a better book than JE but there we go.

so many books so little time

penciLneck

29th April 2003, 10:20

Back to films - do you like mike leigh? Saw his latest 'all or nothing' last night. really liked it.

@bitch one - you probably like john irving too, no?

mr franks

29th April 2003, 10:23

...what about arnies 'the running man' a great film adaptation of a stephen king story....

my fave king book probably pet cemetery, really scary, tho i have not read any king since my teens, when i was younger it seemed that every teenage boy was either reading king of frank herbert....remember'the fog'?

penciLneck

29th April 2003, 10:26

yes the running man was from a book king wrote under the penname of richard bachman - didn't think much of the film though, but the shining and christine were great adaptations of the books - really captured the mood - espec the arnie character in christine (and the car of course).

mr franks

29th April 2003, 10:34

Originally posted by mr franks
...what about arnies 'the running man' a great film adaptation of a stephen king story....

yeah i was being sarcastic, its a shit adaptation (if u can call it that) arnies character survives, in the book he dies - i dislike films that feel they have to tack on happy endings to satisfy an audience. bollerques.

penciLneck

29th April 2003, 10:36

amen, that is why hollywood is so shite. In the vid shop I'll go for world cinema every time and hardly ever be disappointed.

bitch one

29th April 2003, 10:41

i've not actually read any john irving. maybe i should try.

i've been going through a phase of reading philosophy books. decided that philosophy books are quite boring.

the book i am reading at the mo is 'the man who mistook his wife for a hat' by oliver sacks, a book of case histories of people with bizarre neurological problems. it is an excellent book, beautifully written, and quite a head twister.

penciLneck

29th April 2003, 10:43

totally agree - I've read it too, and is one of my favourites. See there is common ground - King and Self hater :)

Irvings alright - his latest is quite weird - about a guy who has his hand bitten off by a lion and then gets a hand transplant.

Lady E

29th April 2003, 11:16

i read the oliver sacks book years ago, about the same time as 'one flew over the cuckoos nest'.its a good read for sure.

also made into a film 'awakenings' with robin williams

ive only seen john irving books as films - more robin williams - hotel new hampshire and world according to garp.

bitch one

29th April 2003, 11:21

u are thinking of the book 'awakenings' emma

don't know if i would like john irving actually, having seen that film garp.

Lady E

29th April 2003, 11:38

aah that will be it then

gunjack

29th April 2003, 11:43

http://a1055.g.akamai.net/f/1055/1401/5h/images.barnesandnoble.com/images/6020000/6021868.gif

mr franks

29th April 2003, 11:47

Mr Nice - i read that on my hols a while back, easy read, funny guy.

Basic 2: The Revenge

29th April 2003, 11:59

http://www.bookspostfree.com/acatalog/Killing%20Pablo%20809006.jpg

I'm reading this at the moment. It's very good.

gunjack

29th April 2003, 12:03

i just saw a film about this a while back.... i cant remember what it was though....

bitch one

29th April 2003, 12:07

mr nice...read that. not sure how much of it is true tho.

penciLneck

29th April 2003, 12:10

it is pretty much true, he's a friend of the family, he also slagged off one of my mates in it - which I'm not happy about.

bitch one

29th April 2003, 12:18

how does being a friend of the family mean you know it is mostly true?

not saying he wasn't big dealer no 1 etc. just thought i could smell a lot of 'dramatic licence' being employed in recounting the details.

penciLneck

29th April 2003, 12:22

oh god yeah, plenty of that - one of my mates used to work for him, so he confirms a lot of the details but sure its a typical modern biography in that sense yes.

bob

29th April 2003, 14:20

I saw the film )the rules of attraction) and to be honest didn't think it was that good. I'm sure the book was much better. It just seemed to be full of fairly gratuitus(?) scenes that seemed to be there just to depict sex/drug taking etc but not for the plot.

the secret history is an excellent book

invisibleplanet

29th April 2003, 14:21

who's the secret history by, bob?

lol

bob

29th April 2003, 14:26

Donna tart.
such an amazing book. She has just brought a second book out, whcih i've not read yet but my girlfriend said it is just as good

Thud

29th April 2003, 14:35

Originally posted by bob
I saw the film )the rules of attraction) and to be honest didn't think it was that good. I'm sure the book was much better. It just seemed to be full of fairly gratuitus(?) scenes that seemed to be there just to depict sex/drug taking etc but not for the plot.

that's pretty much all that happens in the book.

i have read all of BEE stuff, pretty much as it came out and it wasn't until i read 'glamourama' that i realised that most of the other stuff is pretty poor. i don;t think it's bad necessarily, but the whole idea of representing modern waste culture doesn;t make for a particularly interesting read. glamorama on the other hand is total headbomb mindfuck of a book...really exhilerating i thought and i just hope BEE goes on to take his style to even further fucked up levels. i think people will look back on am psycho and the other early works as being the books where he was just finding his feet.

marcel

29th April 2003, 17:00

i have read all books of bee, and like i said im a big fan. and well, i havent seen the adaption of ampsycho yet but i know that it must be worse then the book. this one was hard to adapt and so are all ellis books me thinks.
so i was pretty surprised about the preview. it was of good quality, what ive seen so far(and i do remember that it was said it is made be the one who has cowritten pulpfiction with tarantino-this one here has also nice uses of the cinematic possibilities).
ill see, then i watch this

Originally posted by Thud

i have read all of BEE stuff, pretty much as it came out and it wasn't until i read 'glamourama' that i realised that most of the other stuff is pretty poor. i don;t think it's bad necessarily, but the whole idea of representing modern waste culture doesn;t make for a particularly interesting read. glamorama on the other hand is total headbomb mindfuck of a book...

well, his 'earlier' books were all about human behavior in general, it was meant by him them to have no plots in a clasical way. it was his belief that (his)books dont need more than that to describe the society or whatever.
with glamourama he changed this view. it was the first book of him with a real plot, and i read once an interview about him, that he will go on writing books like glamourama.

Mirsha

29th April 2003, 18:49

Rules of Attraction was a good film showing just how it can all go really tits up. The scene with Beeky boy trying to get coke for his friend is hillarious.

Last night we watch a Korean film, My Sassy Girl, which sure was wacky and zany with mad subtitles as they subtitled all the actions/emotions rather than leaving it to the viewer to emote with the character. Oh so he's just been punched in the face and the subtitles say he's in pain? Commander obvious strikes again.

I also watch Mullholland Drive for the first time yesterday. All I can say is what the fuck? I'm not really surprised to be saying this at a Lynch film but still, what the fuck? too much Lynch, we're watching Twin Peaks as well and we're just about to go onto season 2.

MUX

29th April 2003, 18:59

** warning mudholland drive polt spoiler **
well... take it this way the film is a 2 hour buildup to a very well shot semi-porn lesbian sex scene... and i think that monster behind the corner of the bar & rest from the dream is Marilyn Manson..
it's just a kind of a film-wank ... made only to his hardcore fans to like, which they eventualy dont but say they do cause it was him
( kinda like chinstroking when it comes to IDM )

Marolo

29th April 2003, 19:57

I thought Mullholland Drive was great and I'm not really a hardcore Lynch fan. I have a theory for what happens in the film but its a big long so I won't bore you. Excellent soundtrack too.

dirtyho

29th April 2003, 20:04

good soundtrack - but Lynch's sound design is the shit - so intense

wheezer

29th April 2003, 20:17

yeh badalmenti is the man - lynch has stated on various occasions that he explores the time line in both directions, and he is bored by the linear progression of events found in most hollywood movies...so my basic theory is that he tries different chains of events that anyway tie in to some type of plot coordinate.

I loved the scene between the director and the cowboy

Sheridan

30th April 2003, 03:56

I just saw mulholand drive the other week as well. and yeah I thought the same: what the hell? I was following it up untill a point when it made a big u-turn and drove off a cliff. I think it is all a dream that she is having and thats it.

book wise I am reading 'interview with a vampire'. I liked the movie from what I remember. it has been a long time. but the book is really interesting.

animal night train

30th April 2003, 09:40

the thing about "Mulholland Drive" is that it was a pilot for a series that never got made. as such 90% of the film is just the introduction of characters. it wasn't meant to be a film in it's own right, just the first episode of something far longer. i agree as a film on it's own it falls far short of his more focussed works. that said, i thought "Lost Highway" was brilliant, and i have even less understanding of what that's about!

i thought american psycho was pretentious shite
as one of only two books that have completely taken over my life at the time of reading (L.O.T.R. being the other), i'd hope that it wasn't pretentious shite. i thought is was about pretentious shite. i've seen the film a couple of times and although i do think they couldn't really have done a better job of adapting the book, it loses all the messages and depth of the book. my sister was coincidentally in the cinema at the same time, and while my 2 friends and i, who had all read the book, were quite satisfied with the film, her comment and those of everyone i know who have seen the movie but not read the book was: "it's just about a guy who kills people"...when in fact American Psycho isn't really about that at all, the sex and violence is, in my opinion, not an important part of the story.

in any case, it's the only B.E.E. book i've read, i've heard his others, esp. Glamourama, are much better.

MUX

30th April 2003, 10:01

i never read the book, but thought american pychco was absolutly brilliant.. should i read the book and spoil my opinion on the film?

i think that in every film case it is impossible to stay tottaly in order with the book. i had read Alex garland's The beach a couple of years before the movie, and was totally disappointed in the result... but if only they had choose somebadoy that wasnt dicaprio i might have even liked the movie..

bitch one

30th April 2003, 10:05

Originally posted by Sheridan
I think it is all a dream that she is having and thats it.
.

yep. remember at the start, the camera goes into a pillow?

don't you ever have dreams that seem to have a plot like a movie, usually when you're sleeping late, and they seem to go on and on, you can wake up, fall back asleep and the dream continues? they are usually wish-fulfilment dreams. that's what most of mulholland drive is. up until the point when someone is banging on the door. then she wakes up - reality - everything is shit. the woman she fancies is an evil cow. she looks rough as fuck. the hollywood dream she was having is gone, bump.

this is probably my favourite lynch film. for some reason i totally understood it without a problem, tho i had some trouble convincing people that this interpretation is what actually happened. 'it was all a dream' - seems like the crappest film plot ever, but isn't, because lynch has managed to capture the alternative reality of a wish fulfilment dream perfectly. and the blond girl's acting is incredible - she transforms easily from disney character to crack whore before your eyes. and the music in this film is really beautiful. i love it!

mind you i've only seen it once.

bitch one

30th April 2003, 10:15

Originally posted by animal night train

i'd hope that it wasn't pretentious shite. i thought is was about pretentious shite.

i don't understand the attraction - a character study of a really boring guy who happens to like doing nasty things.

but different strokes i guess. maybe it's a really clever book, maybe i prefer books that speak to my guts.

Lady E

30th April 2003, 10:17

mulholland drive: good, interesting...but ultimately pretty shallow i think. enjoyed it once in the cinema but second time at home i couldnt keep my eyes open.
badalamenti is amazing - twin peaks series music is awesome.

american psycho: this took over my head too, totally. general concensus is that the book is a million times better than the film mux.

mr nice: i like biographies a lot, and i enjoyed that one...but Peter Cook by Harry Thompson is awesome. Kurt Cobain by Charles Cross also good. both incredibly sad though.

its my birthday in two weeks and i want 'i didnt get where i am today' david nobbs autobiography (he wrote the rise and fall of reginald perrin) and the motley crue biog which i bought cristian for christmas and he says it opened his eyes. he was a changed man after reading that! also 'hammer of the gods' the classic led zep rock biography! hoorah for birthdays!!

penciLneck

30th April 2003, 10:22

I liked Mulholland drive too, especially the bit when they go to that theatre and everything although amazing turns out to be fake/dubbed - good pointer to the fact it is a dream, lynch is the master. I think eraserhead has to be down for one of the best films of all time. And one of my 'wishlist' items is the complete twin peaks series on DVD, just got paid today - so might even risk getting it now!

bitch one

30th April 2003, 10:35

i'd love to see eraserhead in a cinema

penciLneck

30th April 2003, 10:37

wow me too - probably quite easy to do in London ...

animal night train

30th April 2003, 10:42

Originally posted by bitch one
i don't understand the attraction - a character study of a really boring guy who happens to like doing nasty things.
i think you missed the point. when i read the book it never occurred to me that that was what it was about. it is not about either Patrick Bateman or the things he does. it's a comment on the way certain groups of society behave and interact (or rather, don't interact). it's about the extreme self-centredness of individuals in certain social circles, the lack of interest in other human beings' relationships and feelings, and the fact that people are so self obsessed, so led by fashion, etiquette and the rat race, that they are completely oblivious to everything around them except the need to be seen as the most attractive, successful, and fashionable person on the scene.

however, saying that, it took me many months to recover from reading the book, to stop wondering what extreme injuries and tortures i could inflict on everyone i spoke to. i remember having conversations with people and pondering on what horrors i might like to perform on their body.

it also opened my mind to the potential pleasures of...erm...no, perhaps that is best left unpublished.

bitch one

30th April 2003, 10:46

no, i didn't miss that. i'd need to be pretty blind to not notice the satire... that doesn't stop it being a character study of a boring guy...that's the vehicle he used to get his point across (and not very subtly to say the least)

mind you, i don't live in london/new york. maybe it would mean more to me if i often met boring people like that.

animal night train

30th April 2003, 10:55

you should meet me. i can bore people to death from 50 paces.

mr.lizard

30th April 2003, 12:41

oy emma

i gotta recommend Peter Ackroyd's biography of London which I'm just finishing. It's a fucking whopper but is amazing - mainly about how dark, unfriendly and immense London is as a city - as if you didn't know. Interesting things about burial sites, ghost rivers and tube stops, places that have retained their same feeling or function for two millenia, and general psychogeographical/historical musings. Check it out if you have the patience - it'll keep you occupied for long.

I've been boring the pants off my mates with dull anecdotes about life in Victorian London. Did you know that the road leading up to Turnmills (along the old River Fleet) from Farringdon Station has one of the darkest, most wretched histories in London? That the Plague started in Holborn? That Golden Square in Soho is an old plague burial site? That an ancient river runs through Victoria Station in a metallic pipe?

Okay, I'll stop now...

g

Lady E

30th April 2003, 14:24

sounds great, i bought it for my mum for xmas last year, ill borrow it of her. thanks g!!

MUX

30th April 2003, 14:30

offtopic : did jack the ripper & sherlock holmes exsist?

animal night train

30th April 2003, 15:06

Originally posted by mr.lizard
i gotta recommend Peter Ackroyd's biography of London
hello mr lizard. that is the next book on my to-read list. i bought it some time ago but have been stuck on my current book, a real toughie with lots of history and maths in it. i was never very good at maths. i am so looking forward to it. i love this city of London. i read Ackroyd's "Hawksmoor" recently and it was so lovely to read these stories set in streets that i walk down with some regularity. i found it enchanting, as if i were transferred through time. standing at the church at Spitalfields, i think of what the lay of the land would have been like in the 17th century.

i look forward to learning more about the further history of this city in the non-fiction biography of London. i agree, it is a wealey big book. lucky i have a bag to carry it in on the train to and from job.

animal night train

30th April 2003, 15:08

Originally posted by MUX
offtopic : did jack the ripper & sherlock holmes exsist?
Holmes is the fictional invention of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, author of the novels which brought him to life. Jack the Ripper, presumably did exist as several women were brutally murdered in the east end of London in a short space of time. it seems unlikely that his real name was Jack the Ripper, though.

mr.lizard

30th April 2003, 15:45

yeah, the ripper certainly did exist

funnily enough, the pub directly opposite the Spitz where the last super_collider gig is mentioned by Ackroyd as containing some important clues as to the mystery of the Whitechapel murders. Doesn't specity what though. All around that area was where the murders took place. Spooky eh.. wooooaahhh

a 'wealey big book', animal?

MUX

30th April 2003, 16:01

thank's for the info... so nobody was actually arrested for the ripper murders?? and the killer had good medical knowledge?

ripper opposite skits eh? hmmmmmmmm i did think the venue was a bit spooky....

animal night train

30th April 2003, 16:03

Originally posted by mr.lizard
yeah, the ripper certainly did exist
i believe so too. i said "presumably" as there was never a solution to the murders so it is only the most likely explanation that one person was responsible, but it is conceivable that the murders were committed by more than one person.

you have further whetted my appetite for this book. it is spooky to read of events in the past that happened in places you know. i love the old parts of town...despite the best efforts of developers it is still dripping with atmosphere, especially around the brick lane, whitechapel, commercial st, shoreditch areas. i am considering dumping my current book as it's opaqueness causes me to not want to pick it up and i am impatient. it started so well, too. what a shame.

bitch one

30th April 2003, 16:16

what book?

animal night train

30th April 2003, 16:30

Originally posted by bitch one
what book?
Peter Ackroyd's "London", subtitled "a biography of London", as referred to by mr lizard several posts up.

bitch one

30th April 2003, 16:45

no i mean what one are u stuck on ?

animal night train

30th April 2003, 17:13

oh, excuse me.

it's THIS (http://www.oup-usa.org/isbn/0195128427.html) one.

bitch one

30th April 2003, 17:22

sounds like one of those books i would read a bit of and then get bored and skim it

Sheridan

30th April 2003, 18:06

Originally posted by bitch one
mind you i've only seen it once.

same here. I rented it and watched it then I forgot to take it back. so I had it for a whole nother week but I never watched it again. I too thought the sound design and music were exceptional in this movie.

as for american psycho I saw the movie but have not read the book. I thought the movie was interesting but I found it to be more humorous than anything else. like when he is talking about the importance of huey lewis and the news' music. I agree with what animal night train said about what the story was really trying to convey. that is why I think I found it so humorous, because one of the easiest ways to translate those thoughts and ideas is by setting the story in the 80's (a decade that should be forgotten). since that was the 'me'decade. those years were all about self indulgence and a lack of human connectedness.

@emma: when is your birthday? mine is in two weeks as well (may 15) but I can't remember when yours is.

bitch one

1st May 2003, 10:39

Originally posted by Sheridan

since that was the 'me'decade. those years were all about self indulgence and a lack of human connectedness.

i think that's why everyone was so into group hugging in the uk in the early 90s, kicking against all that. there's just as much chems about now but nobody's hugging..