Racism week

[thepigjockey]

What's going on this week?

Two of my students (one my age- mid-30's), and one in her 40's/50's did the slanty-eyes thing when I mentioned Asia/China/Japan.

WTF?

Dumbasses.

The first time it happened I was surprised and confused and ended up just ignoring it. These are supposedly adults doing supposedly responsible jobs. By the second time it happened I just said 'don't do that, it's offensive'.

But having to say that to someone older than me? You'd think that in her 40+ years on this planet she would have figured out how to behave...

Anyone else experiencing high levels of dumbass bigotry this week? I hope not.

[kams]

Every bloody day

Had to attempt to explain to a PA (again in her 50's and generally pretty sane) why it isn't ok to say "Paki".

Our office is pretty racially mixed and right in the middle of Brixton - so you'd think these things might have sunk in by now.

[emef]

i've had to tell half the people i work with over the last 2 years i dont appreciate their racist 'banter'

so called care workers

[Hectic Cum Balthazar]

That doesn't happen where I work, just the standard throwaway homophobia.. X is gay, Y is gay etc... which in Brighton is as odd as Kams experience in Brixton.

[Orang Utan]

my work is like a benetton ad. i've never heard anything orrible.

[Loz]

mostly talk about "pikeys" here. Unfortunately not helped by the behaviour of nearby traveler families, both children and their parents.

[thepigjockey]

Had to attempt to explain to a PA (again in her 50's and generally pretty sane) why it isn't ok to say "Paki".


i've had to tell half the people i work with over the last 2 years i dont appreciate their racist 'banter'


Although I'd love to ignore them and just cross my fingers and hope they met with a freak fatal photocopying accident, that's sadly not going to happen.

So I think the best way to deal with it is exactly this- talking to them about it. I'm actually supposed to be teaching them English, the 'how to try not to be a bigoted shitcunt' is a free bonus.

[don___quixote]

my office is how i imagine the top gear office. not good

[soulcheck]

Is calling British people 'Brits' offensive?

[Brownthing]

No

[soulcheck]

Then i don't get the 'Paki' thing.

[platinum ray]

ha-ha, if someone called me a Brit I'd be a little upset:)

I guess it's about context, very often the word Paki is used to have negative connotations so the word has taken on an offensive meaning

[emef]

Is calling British people 'Brits' offensive?

just dont call us briti's

[kams]

because it was, and still is, used as an offensive term by often violent xenophobic white British people ever since Indian/Bangladeshi/Pakistani immigrants came to the UK.. often suffixed with "cunt" or "bastard" or suchlike.

In a context outside of the reality of Asian's experience of living in Britain it is merely an abbreviation. But its general use of the last few decades has been derogatory and bigoted and it scares and alienates people.

[kams]

not exclusively by white people I should add

[thepigjockey]

Then i don't get the 'Paki' thing.

Two ways to find out whether this word is offensive or not:

1. Check a dictionary and see what it says.

or

2. Go anywhere in the UK and say the word to/about someone who isn't white. Watch their reaction closely.

Option 1 is probably going to be safest :-p

[soulcheck]

I knew that it's offensive because of connotations, but the only reasonable way of fighting it is imo actually use it a lot in non offensive way. Once it gets to mainstream "paki cunt" will be offensive only because of "cunt" in it.

[thepigjockey]

Just say Pakistani. I don't think you'll get very far in your quest to change it into an acceptable word before you get thumped :)

[soulcheck]

:)

Still it's Pa-ki-sta-neee instead of Pa-ki and it says a lot about power of abbreviations if Bri-tish gets cut to just Brit.

All in all it's not words we must fight. It's attitude.

[thepigjockey]

Well if it's the length you object to just talk faster.

[soulcheck]

heheheh

[don___quixote]

aparently swear words are offensive too - which is also stoopid as they are just slang for bits of the body and their functions but everyone (with sense) still knows that you can't use them in some places like your mums.

if i was pakistani i doubt i'd be offended by it - but if someone used it in an attempt to offend me (or fit in with their office pals) i'd still think they were a prick.


..but then i shag sheep.

[Konx-om-Pax]

i got called a "white cunt" by a wee asian ned in the street last week.

my first racial attack!!!
wooo!!!

[r_v]

Asia/China/Japan.

They're not interchangeable you know. Racist.

[thepigjockey]

lol

iirc the first racist did the pulling her eyes sideways thing when talking about China, and the second one was in response to the word 'Asian'. So forget about 'Japan'.

[Hectic Cum Balthazar]

if i was pakistani i doubt i'd be offended by it

so lets get this straight, you mean if you were born a pakistani in britain? or if the race fairy decided to just change you over? Spandex lol.

[don___quixote]

so lets get this straight, you mean if you were born a pakistani in britain? or if the race fairy decided to just change you over? Spandex lol.


if were born in pakistan and was anywhere in the world.

[Orang Utan]

stupid hypotheticality.
if you were a brit of asian origin and someone called you a paki, you'd be offended.

[Hectic Cum Balthazar]

if were born in pakistan and was anywhere in the world.

so if someone shouted paki at you on the street you wouldn't be offended you mean? or do you mean if someone politely greeted you with a good natured 'good morning paki' when you bought a train ticket?

[hektor ruiez]

I got called a 'sweaty jock' when I worked down in Salisbury, Wiltshire. Fukn bumpkins.

[don___quixote]

stupid hypotheticality.
if you were a brit of asian origin and someone called you a paki, you'd be offended.

yes - thats a different point.

however people call me english all the time i dont give a shit. however calling someone a Paki wasn't really my point i was on about the word.

[Orang Utan]

yes - thats a different point.

is it now? then what was yours?

[Hectic Cum Balthazar]

sweaty jock - they didn't even get it right.. isn't it 'sweaty sock' as in rhyming slang for jock? It'll be the cider messing with their racist cortex.

[Hectic Cum Balthazar]

is it now? then what was yours?

don't forget, he's actually a turing test

[don___quixote]

is it now? then what was yours?

see my edit above.

[Hectic Cum Balthazar]

Can you just mention a couple of inoffensive everyday uses of the word paki in britain please, that's all you need to do.

[don___quixote]

fuck it. whatever.
the word exists -

people get offended by it

people use


its a word.


im a racist.

i don't use it.

im badly illustrating a point


whatever.

basically.

[emef]

because it was, and still is, used as an offensive term by often violent xenophobic white British people ever since Indian/Bangladeshi/Pakistani immigrants came to the UK.. often suffixed with "cunt" or "bastard" or suchlike.

In a context outside of the reality of Asian's experience of living in Britain it is merely an abbreviation. But its general use of the last few decades has been derogatory and bigoted and it scares and alienates people.

did you really need to explain all that?
i'm sure soulcheck was joking
or he's a fucking idiot
and explaining it to him would be like trying to teach a fish to play ping pong

[emef]

I knew that it's offensive because of connotations, but the only reasonable way of fighting it is imo actually use it a lot in non offensive way. Once it gets to mainstream "paki cunt" will be offensive only because of "cunt" in it.

i just tried to defend you a minute ago
but you are actually a fucking spanner

[emef]

i got called a "white cunt" by a wee asian ned in the street last week.

my first racial attack!!!
wooo!!!

hahaha neds in glasgow are awesome

[Hectic Cum Balthazar]

fuck it. whatever.
the word exists -

people get offended by it

people use


its a word.


im a racist.

i don't use it.

im badly illustrating a point


whatever.

basically.


it's all just atoms right?

[emef]

I got called a 'sweaty jock' when I worked down in Salisbury, Wiltshire. Fukn bumpkins.

to be half fair, you've been sweaty nearly every time i've seen you

[don___quixote]

it's all just atoms right?

http://api.ning.com/files/gikBPgJguSVzglPZBDnRXscVrMVpbt B6OHT5rsrUkKtnglXL1Hfr*fWny443 6JvtzwmPYgvqP0XwURgHOHy4k*WL8f MhEKs8/DSC018832.JPG

[spoon]

did you really need to explain all that?
i'm sure soulcheck was joking
or he's a fucking idiot
and explaining it to him would be like trying to teach a fish to play ping pong

http://images.encyclopediadramatica.c om/images/5/5b/Successful_troll2.jpg

[Hectic Cum Balthazar]

http://api.ning.com/files/gikBPgJguSVzglPZBDnRXscVrMVpbt B6OHT5rsrUkKtnglXL1Hfr*fWny443 6JvtzwmPYgvqP0XwURgHOHy4k*WL8f MhEKs8/DSC018832.JPG

love is just a word though right?

[hektor ruiez]

sweaty jock - they didn't even get it right.. isn't it 'sweaty sock' as in rhyming slang for jock? It'll be the cider messing with their racist cortex.

haha, you probably right, I could never understand them.

[don___quixote]

love is just a word though right?

no its a feeling.

[emef]

http://images.encyclopediadramatica.c om/images/5/5b/Successful_troll2.jpg

troll?

[soulcheck]

i just tried to defend you a minute ago
but you are actually a fucking spanner

like your opinion meant anything

[don___quixote]

apologies for my comments on theis thread.

[spoon]

troll?

soulcheck is yeah. he's also a complete fucking idiot who should be ignored.

[bigus]

theres a student with "kampf" as his grafitti tag in the college i go to, I ve seen it in a bunch of places with a swastika and c18 for good measure. - thats pretty offensive :(

By pretty I mean very

[soulcheck]

soulcheck is yeah. he's also a complete fucking idiot who should be ignored.

Then why don't you do so Spoon you stupid cunt? Can't fuckin click 'ignore' link on your mac?

[Hectic Cum Balthazar]

apologies for my comments on theis thread.

you are officially the no-future winner.

[soulcheck]

It should've been 'Spandex'es you stupid cunt' meaning 'lol' not directed at Spandex. Thanks for the edit mdk.

[thepigjockey]

Oh maaan, this is just too depressing. Day 7 and the racism continues. It's probably that big sign on my forehead that reads 'if you have prejudices please tell me about them'.

I really hope it's the end of racism week, 7 days full of bigotry prejudice and downright dumbness.

This all happened in the same lesson, and it all came from the same person:

Bigot said:

Never trust Estonians or Russians.

Somalis just lie around all day doing nothing.

Immigrant children don't know how to behave.

I hate muslims.

I'm a racist. (I like this one, at least she's honest)



As a teacher my goal is to get them speaking freely. Achieved! However it's pretty stressful and I can't bite my tongue and just let the tidal wave of hate flood over me without reacting.

She made some point about the Koran and how there's a passage in it telling Muslims to kill unbelievers. I pointed out there are similar passages in the bible. Ooooooh she didn't like that. She didn't believe me and promised to go and check :)

The reality of the situation is that I have to see this woman once a week during term time. I'll just have to concentrate on steering the conversation away from this subject.

By the way, the topic of the discussion was, er, longevity.

[Loz]

Here you go, Conrad, this might help you:

"And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God..." (Deuteronomy 13: 5)

"If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;" (Deuteronomy 13: 6)

"Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people." (Deuteronomy 13:8-9)

"Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword." (Deuteronomy 13:15)

The 3rd one is pretty unequivocal

[thembuzz]

Oh maaan, this is just too depressing. Day 7 and the racism continues. It's probably that big sign on my forehead that reads 'if you have prejudices please tell me about them'.

I really hope it's the end of racism week, 7 days full of bigotry prejudice and downright dumbness.


do you teach english as a foreign language, tpj?

i know a few people who do that. they all complain about racism in the classroom

fucking foreigners for you, innit

[Loz]

Hall and Oates, Andy?

[thembuzz]

yes, hall & oates

[thepigjockey]

do you teach english as a foreign language, tpj?

i know a few people who do that. they all complain about racism in the classroom

fucking foreigners for you, innit

Yes I do. Interesting that others complain about it. I'd be interested to hear how they deal with it.

In England there was a major wave of immigration that started around 50 years ago. I lived there for most of my life and took it for granted that England and London in particular were quite diverse.

In Finland mass immigration (on a much smaller scale) has only just started. But it's a new thing and some people are a bit befuddled by it.

That's my theory, but I'm open to others.

Also, because my skin's white, I am not seen as 'foreign', so people feel it's ok to rant about non-white people to me, expecting I'll be sympathetic. No chance.

The students I teach are typically female, middle-aged, middle of the road, conservative suburbanites with 2 or 3 kids who have some kind of 'job for life' at major corporations. The vast majority of them seem to be lovely, relaxed, interesting, honest people. It's only a minority who are like this.

But funnily enough the bigots also seem ok until, for some reason or other, a huge rant about how rapey Somalis are comes out of nowhere.

(I'm copyrighting that word btw) :-p

This is thankfully only an occasional thing, but this week it's been well out of hand.

[Daddys Girl]

Hall and Oates, Andy?

I hope you're not being Hall & Oates-ist Loz.

[Hectic Cum Balthazar]

394 yards

[Loz]

No, I love Smeeoooth Music

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[thembuzz]

Yes I do. Interesting that others complain about it. I'd be interested to hear how they deal with it.


i think they go home and drink

the ones who complain most about it are teaching it to foreign students in britain. i can't help but wonder if the students are just trying to fit in

[thembuzz]

No, I love Smeeoooth Music

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can't argue with this shit

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[Loz]

also:

The best Keyboard Cat by far (most of them are shit. this is genius)

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[thepigjockey]

That cheered me up a treat :)

[Daddys Girl]

That cheered me up a treat :)

:)

I really do have a love for Hall and Oates.
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This makes me smile for the cheese factor.
Anyway... back to the original thread ;)

[joe pinapples]

Sorry to hear about the nonsense in the classroom Conrad. Depressing. I'm happy to say I never have had to deal with that when teaching Swedes. The worse I've had is mad pro-Swedes who think Sweden is the best at everything and refuse to debate it, and really really boring people who are obsessed with their jobs. Not much of a big deal. However most of my students have been youngish and Sweden has a much different emigration history than Finlandia.

[emef]

also:

The best Keyboard Cat by far (most of them are shit. this is genius)

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hehe quality

[M H]

Then i don't get the 'Paki' thing.

British people havn't suffered for years at the hands (and dr martins boots) of people kicking their heads in whilst telling them to "Go home you fucking Brit"... I think that's the main thing that makes a difference... No offence intended to you Soulcheck, but I do meet a lot of people from east of the old iron curtain who have racism "Issues" which is kind of ironic considering that there aren't so many black/asian people in those countries...

[Irrungenwirrungen]

I rarely experience it in the classroom, but if I do, I tackle it head-on.
There's no justification in having selective hearing when it comes to racism, when it's from secondary school pupils (must be different when teaching adults though pj, when their prejudiced opinions are well formed). I only tend to turn on selective hearing when they call me a 'bald cnut' or similar.

[soulcheck]

British people havn't suffered for years at the hands (and dr martins boots) of people kicking their heads in whilst telling them to "Go home you fucking Brit"... I think that's the main thing that makes a difference... No offence intended to you Soulcheck, but I do meet a lot of people from east of the old iron curtain who have racism "Issues" which is kind of ironic considering that there aren't so many black/asian people in those countries...

None taken. I think it's true and caused by that lack of blacks and asians here. Some people aren't used to them and feel uneasy about them which gets transformed to hatred easily. I haven't noticed the 'they come and take our workplaces from us' thinking though, but that probably because noone comes :)

[Orang Utan]

where do you live soulcheck?

[thembuzz]

shropshire

[soulcheck]

Damn, I feel a shitstorm of sarcasm coming.

[Hectic Cum Balthazar]

I haven't noticed the 'they come and take our workplaces from us' thinking though

maybe all the polish people who do think like that are the ones that moved to Britain :)

[soulcheck]

:)

[M H]

I haven't noticed the 'they come and take our workplaces from us' thinking though, but that probably because noone comes :)

Or because there's no jobs to be taken maybe :D