Iran

[V Knid esq]

Popular uprising against brutal clerical fascism? Or foolish stooges of the Imperialist West? Honestly, you give these people an inch and they take a mile...

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/1786/slide_1786_24102_large.jpg

Scary times, either way.

[decadnids]

Popular uprising against brutal clerical fascism? Or foolish stooges of the Imperialist West?

are we allowed to say both?

[darrell]

I like how they demonstrate when their elections are rigid, but americans
just except it and get on with their fat life styles.

[Hectic Cum Balthazar]

I always like to see an uprising. But when you actually look at the fellar they're protesting for it's all kinda meh. We demand the other puppet.

[V Knid esq]

it's all kinda meh.

8-()

you've actually managed to turn defeatism into an ideology!

[V Knid esq]

(the point here being, that if the govt hadn't faked the election so badly, it would just have been one puppet vs another, but because they gave people a taste of democracy then snatched it away from them, they've ended up with a rebellion against the entire system... hardly "kinda meh" IMHO)

[Yer_Maw]

the fact that the election is so skewed makes me think it is genuine, noone would be stupid enough to cheat that badly.

Anyway is a bit rich complaining about lack of democracy in iran though.

[joe pinapples]

yeah like no one would be stupid enough to deny the holocaust.

[Yer_Maw]

touche

[Spandex]

It's not clear that Ajimmyjob actually denied the holocaust... unlike Nick Griffin who's on record doing it. And it's also not clear that he wants to "wipe Israel off the map" either. He's probably a LOT less stupid and insane than the BBC etc try to portray him... and a fair bit more calculating and cunty.

[platinum ray]

I'm worried about how this is going to pan out. God knows what going on behind the scenes and reports of the shootings, disappearances and media ban, is a concern.

Is it possible that Ahmadinejad won this fairly?

[V Knid esq]

It's not clear that Ajimmyjob actually denied the holocaust... unlike Nick Griffin who's on record doing it. And it's also not clear that he wants to "wipe Israel off the map" either. He's probably a LOT less stupid and insane than the BBC etc try to portray him... and a fair bit more calculating and cunty.

Where has he been portrayed as stupid or insane?

[Spandex]

<noparse>ON THE NEWS</noparse>

[V Knid esq]

Ah yes The News, on The Media, written by THEM.

[Sheridan]

I always like to see an uprising. But when you actually look at the fellar they're protesting for it's all kinda meh. We demand the other puppet.

This.
I don't really get why the Iranians are so up in arms about Mousavi losing when he was picked by the clerics to run. The clerics pick all of the candidates, so it isn't like they have this great selection to start with. And from what I have heard he isn't too far off from Ahmadinejad.

[Sheridan]

It's not clear that Ajimmyjob actually denied the holocaust... unlike Nick Griffin who's on record doing it. And it's also not clear that he wants to "wipe Israel off the map" either. He's probably a LOT less stupid and insane than the BBC etc try to portray him... and a fair bit more calculating and cunty.


I don't know about his holocaust denying, but as for the "wipe Israel off the map" that was just a mistranslation. What he said was he wanted to wipe the zionist regime of israel from the pages of history. Basically, he doesn't want israel doing the fucked up shit they do to palestine. And if that is what he really meant then I agree. Go Ahmadmenijad!!

[joe pinapples]

It's not clear that Ajimmyjob actually denied the holocaust... unlike Nick Griffin who's on record doing it. And it's also not clear that he wants to "wipe Israel off the map" either. He's probably a LOT less stupid and insane than the BBC etc try to portray him... and a fair bit more calculating and cunty.

he has called the holocaust a 'myth'. and there is also this (http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,2149241,00.html).

[Spandex]

I've heard the "myth" thing yeah. I'd not seen the Merkel letter though.

[Yer_Maw]

george galloway beleives he election was fair

But he is the president of an important country and we'll just have to accept it.

http://blogs.dailyrecord.co.uk/georgegalloway/2009/06/you-can-count-on-the-fact-elec.html

*hides

[darrell]

This.
I don't really get why the Iranians are so up in arms about Mousavi losing when he was picked by the clerics to run. The clerics pick all of the candidates, so it isn't like they have this great selection to start with. And from what I have heard he isn't too far off from Ahmadinejad.


Classic tactics by the C I A

[Spandex]

he has called the holocaust a 'myth'. and there is also this (http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,2149241,00.html).

I've read the Merkel letter now. It's a little different to how it's presented in the news articles about it. It reads like someone who's trying to hint that the holocaust was made up... but he's smart enough to never come out and explicitly say it. It's crystal clear that he's racist... but he's way smarter than Nick Griffin :/

The problem is that it doesn't much matter WHAT he says.. it's always going to be like this... because he's an "evil baddie", his long letter is reduced to the one phrase that proves he's a baddie, and then we all tear our hair out and wail about how he thinks nasty thoughts. Whereas our own leaders, responsible for hundreds of thousands of ACTUAL murders, say things like "bringing democracy to the middle east" and it gets quoted approvingly, instead of being treated with the kind of derision and disgust we reserve for far lesser evildoers like Adjimmyhat.

If Adjimmyhat wants to stop being a "bad guy", it's not Israel, human rights or the Holocaust he needs to concentrate on, it's giving the USA whatever they want with respect to Iranian oil. I'm sure he's smart enough to realise this, and also that his defiance of the US is the only reason he's in power at all. I'm sure that, where Bush wanted to bomb them, Obama will at least try and do it "bloodlessly".. meaning that they'll try to buy off and assimilate the Iranian leadership, or facilitate another coup, install another Shah.. wotever... all without giving a fuck about the Iranian people. You know, all that shit again.

e.g. look at the dates on this article about Iran starting to trade oil in currencies other than USD.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Oil_Bourse
And compare them to the dates when we suddenly started having "Iran is bad" rammed down our throats.

So if the media is getting all wet-knickered about "the other guy" in this election, then chances are he's going to fuck the Iranians over, otherwise the beeb would be describing him as a "hardliner" and "firebrand" and trying to make him look mental like Adjimmyhat. Which is all a long way round of saying what Steev said way up there :)

[V Knid esq]

Ahmadinejad didn't just deny the holocaust, he hosted a 2 day conference dedicated to denying it, to which he invited the likes of KKK leader David Duke.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article1089172.ece

(more media lies, probably)

[V Knid esq]

george galloway beleives he election was fair



http://blogs.dailyrecord.co.uk/georgegalloway/2009/06/you-can-count-on-the-fact-elec.html

*hides

So does Hugo Chavez, and he's one of the Good Guys. Oh I'm so confused.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2009\06\18\st ory_18-6-2009_pg20_5

[V Knid esq]

So if the media is getting all wet-knickered about "the other guy" in this election

Who is? It's the mysterious The Media again. THEM.

[Spandex]

"Venezuela's firebrand leader Hugo Chavez" :)

[Spandex]

Who is? It's the mysterious The Media again. THEM.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_media

[V Knid esq]

That's a pretty big pair of knickers to get wet.

[Spandex]

Yep. They get all excited about the olympics too. It's mental.

[V Knid esq]

I want sources. Who has got excited about "the other guy"?

Every single report I've seen or heard says that both the alternative voting options were puppets of the Ayatollah and his theocracy, that neither offer genuine reform or democracy as such, and that the actual story is about the upwelling of disatisfaction and act of rebellion in the face of violent suppression, not about whether candidate X or candidate Y is elected.

But if you have seen other stories that make it all about how great Musavi is, please provide links.

[Spandex]

Tell you what, I'll start trying to have serious conversations with you again once you stop doing things like pretending not to know what "the media" means :)

[Yer_Maw]

Mummy and daddy are talking again. Does that mean we can be a family again?

[V Knid esq]

I'm not pretending not to know what "the media" means.

I'm questioning whether you really believe that "the media" speaks with a single voice.

And I'm asking you for evidence that "the media" is saying what you suggest it is saying.

[Spandex]

Mummy and daddy are talking again. Does that mean we can be a family again?

I never stopped loving you.

Deli are playing at Hubb tonite apparently. I'm heading down... can ask if their H&H residency thing is still going on.

[Hectic Cum Balthazar]

I want sources. Who has got excited about "the other guy"?

Every single report I've seen or heard says that both the alternative voting options were puppets of the Ayatollah and his theocracy, that neither offer genuine reform or democracy as such, and that the actual story is about the upwelling of disatisfaction and act of rebellion in the face of violent suppression, not about whether candidate X or candidate Y is elected.

But if you have seen other stories that make it all about how great Musavi is, please provide links.

oh come on, you can't start a thread with your bullshit polarised opening line and then expect people to just start imagining you have some kind of nuanced view of the events :)

[V Knid esq]

bullshit polarised opening line

Or as it's known more commonly, a "joke".

[Hectic Cum Balthazar]

sorry Joe, it's been like 9 months now since I really got anything you wrote ;)

[phil2]

Here we go again

[Hectic Cum Balthazar]

"why are the Iranians dreaming again?*"

http://www.cinestatic.com/infinitethought/2009/06/why-are-iranians-dreaming-again.asp

[V Knid esq]

Right, let's start again.

The Iranians are out on the streets. Scary times. I wonder whether they'll achieve anything, what do you think?

[Sheridan]

Right, let's start again.

The Iranians are out on the streets. Scary times. I wonder whether they'll achieve anything, what do you think?

They will as soon as they embrace christianity.

[Hectic Cum Balthazar]

If it's another revolution in the making I hope it works out better in the long run than last time.

[Sheridan]

In all seriousness, what is it that Iranians really want?
Do they want Mousavi declared the winner or do they want the Ayatollah to step down and revamp the government?

[V Knid esq]

"why are the Iranians dreaming again?*"

http://www.cinestatic.com/infinitethought/2009/06/why-are-iranians-dreaming-again.asp

That starts badly with the whole "The Media says" thing and some very sweeping statements which don't reflect what I saw in the UK media. But the main points it makes are very, very cogent.

[phil2]

What do you want Joe?

[V Knid esq]

In all seriousness, what is it that Iranians really want?
Do they want Mousavi declared the winner or do they want the Ayatollah to step down and revamp the government?

I think some of them want the former, many the latter, but it is much, much more dangerous - even unthinkable, after so many years of fear - to express the latter so it's hard to tell.

On the whole the impression I get is they just want less oppression, simple as that!

[V Knid esq]

It's going right off now :(

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/13/iran-demonstrations-viole_n_215189.html

[V Knid esq]

Oh dear, bad the corporations

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2009/jun/22/iran-nokia-siemens-networks

[V Knid esq]

http://www.chathamhouse.org.uk/files/14234_iranelection0609.pdf

[Brownthing]

http://www.chathamhouse.org.uk/files/14234_iranelection0609.pdf


I had a quick glance, does it pretty much prove it was rigged?

[V Knid esq]

I don't know about prove, but it says that the voting patterns were so radically different to any previous election as to make it extraordinarily unlikely that it wasn't rigged. This suggests similar from a different perspective. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/20/AR2009062000004.html?1

Some disagree though http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2009/06/432924.html?c=on#c226446

[Hectic Cum Balthazar]

people reloaded: why mass protest in iran is true politics worth supporting

http://www.cinestatic.com/infinitethought/2009/06/people-reloaded-why-mass-protest-in.asp

[V Knid esq]

http://www.socialistunity.com/?p=4259

[V Knid esq]

http://www.htlblog.com/?p=519

[Sheridan]

Its been over a week. Haven't we all stopped caring?

[V Knid esq]

Did we start?

[Sheridan]

No, not really.
Hey, did you hear Perez Hilton got punched in the face?!

[thembuzz]

Mousevi 2012

[V Knid esq]

Obama getting involved now, the dirty imperialist cunt.

[Orang Utan]

it's cos they killed that fit lass