Those kerazzy racist spaniards

[joe pinapples]

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Sport/Pix/pictures/2008/08/15/460Spain_gesture.jpg

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/aug/15/olympics2008.olympicstennis

[Yer_Maw]

Its The New Craze Sweeping The Iberian Peninsula!

1970's Racism!

W00t!

[joe pinapples]

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Sport/Pix/pictures/2008/08/10/spanishbasketballteam.jpg

[Sheridan]

I thought that shit was pretty funny.

[don___quixote]

i didn't think it was overtly rascist really, if it had been in France for example and they'd worn black and white striped tops, beret's and a load of onions would everyone be kicking up a fuss? well probably this day and age but it's not really that offensive is it?

[Sheridan]

I don't think it is that offensive.
But then again I am not Asian.

[Ro Land]

What if they pretended they had big lips and walked around like monkeys?

[Sheridan]

What if they pretended they had big lips and walked around like monkeys?


That would be cruel and insensitive to all primates.
Poor monkeys.

[spoon]

I thought the basketball photo was hilarious. How is that the same as Aragones remarks about Henry or the taunts aimed at Lewis Hamilton? Is the Guardian for fucking real?

[Orang Utan]

Of course it's racist. Of course it's offensive. D'oh!

[Yer_Maw]

Im not one for PC at all, but to all you chucklers why not see what happens next time you go down a chinese restraunt, pull your eyes back and say "chiken fweid rice"

are you kidding me?

[don___quixote]

Im not one for PC at all, but to all you chucklers why not see what happens next time you go down a chinese restraunt, pull your eyes back and say "chiken fweid rice"

are you kidding me?

ok that would be offensive - same as if i went to a french resturant in afore mentioned garb and went hor hor hor alot, however if i'm going to france and i playfully dress up and in the national get up and go hor, hor, hor alot for promotion shots - is it as bad?

edit ; then maybe i'm obtuse?

[spoon]

There was an ad on TV years ago (not that long ago mind you) which featured asian children widening their eyes with their fingers imitating westerners. I think it was for a bank or something, I can't find it on youtube. Anyway, I'm pretty sure nobody found that offensive - I certainly didn't. Maybe the Guardian did.

Going up to someone and making fun of them because they have different ethnic characteristics to you isn't the same as what I'm seeing here. A bit of common sense should be able to tell you that.

[Ro Land]

you can choose what you wear.

you can't choose what your eyes look like.

we done then? :)

[Orang Utan]

ok that would be offensive - same as if i went to a french resturant in afore mentioned garb and went hor hor hor alot, however if i'm going to france and i playfully dress up and in the national get up and go hor, hor, hor alot for promotion shots - is it as bad?

edit ; then maybe i'm obtuse?
it's extremely insulting to your host to do that. Surely you can see that?

[don___quixote]

you can't choose what your eyes look like.



good point however this reminds me of people who are offended by words that describe parts of the body and it's functions ie most of them- cunt, shit, dick, prick etc not sure how this is relavent but i've always found it bizarre, saying that i wouldn't say them infront of my nan, again i'm not treally sure how thats relavent - i suppose i'm just getting at peoples different ideas on offensivity..

[spoon]

you can choose what you wear.

you can't choose what your eyes look like.

we done then? :)

Do you think that Chinese people are ashamed of or are sensitive to the fact that their eyes are a different shape to white people's eyes? It's not a fucking disability we're talking about here.

[Orang Utan]

That's not the point at all though is it?

[don___quixote]

it's extremely insulting to your host to do that. Surely you can see that?

yes i guess i do - and i probably wouldn't do it but if a load of chinese came to wales and did a photo shoot with leeks up their asses while fucking sheep would i mind? nah; we fuck em you eat em.

[Orang Utan]

It would certainly offend some people! And it would definitely get in the papers!

[don___quixote]

It would certainly offend some people! And it would definitely get in the papers!


aye it would and i remember when anne robinson offended the 'welsh" - i just thought for fucks sake it's a joke!

[thembuzz]

of course it's fucking racist. in fact, it's not just fucking racist, it's fucking dark, considering how many racist incidents there have been at sporting events in spain recently. what the fuck's going on over there?

[spoon]

Shit like this devalues the term 'racism'.

[Orang Utan]

Does it bollocks, taking racism lightly and viewing it conditionally devalues racism until no-one takes any racism seriously

[spoon]

Platitudes aside, it would be great if you could explain to me how this is racist? All I'm getting here is frothing at the mouth outrage and I think we could have a bit more of a level headed discussion than that.

The British media sure has the knives out for Spain these days, no?

[don___quixote]

playing devils advocate here - but if we hang on one god darn cotton picking minute; if i dress up in a kilt, sporran and the oh so "offensive" ginger hair that every stereotypical Scotsman obviously has- i'm a rascist? or is it different and how?

[Yer_Maw]

You can split hairs all you want on the definition of 'racism.' The fact is you wouldnt go up to a chinese person and do it unless you were a total cunt. Now if you would go and do it in your local chinese supermaket, yeah then i can see why youd think its all for laffs.

Ps i dont really care. I just think its pretty obvious that is not on. Must be a cultural thing over there.

edit:

so whats the joke even if it is funny? chinese people have slanty eyes? hoho.

[don___quixote]

no it's not that funny apart from the fact they were stupid enough to do it however they didn't do it 'to" a chinese person, i don't think it was meant to upset and i figure you'd probably be a bit of a cunt if it did offend you.

[soulcheck]

I read it more like "we're all chinese", especially that it was a part of advertising campaign (i mean the basket team).

[don___quixote]

i keep on thinking about fancy dress - i've had mates black up as various characters and it's not offended our black friends (as far as i'm aware and god i can't believe i've said that!!) but if they went down the local afro barbers like it and started jive talking it's obviously a different thing.

[Yer_Maw]

So your mates at a party is the same as promotional pictures splashed across the world containing high profile athletes during the olympics?

[don___quixote]

no and like i say it's more than a bit stupid - however i believe it was innocent.

edit; i'm just trying to convey thats there is a difference between meaning to offend and not.

[spoon]

You can split hairs all you want on the definition of 'racism.' The fact is you wouldnt go up to a chinese person and do it unless you were a total cunt. Now if you would go and do it in your local chinese supermaket, yeah then i can see why youd think its all for laffs.

That's malicious, I don't see any malice in these pictures and no-one is saying that there was any offense intended. There's the difference and I think it's pretty stark.

so whats the joke even if it is funny? chinese people have slanty eyes? hoho.

Not really, I don't see it as a joke at the expense of Chinese people anyway.

[Sheridan]

The picture was premeditated, so I think a joke was implied.
I really just found it funny because of the stupidity of it.
Of course doing that is going to ruffle some feathers.
And for me, I haven't seen anyone do that since I was around 8 years old.
It is something children do to taunt Asians and make fun of them.
I think it would have been more malicious and racist had they maybe held up a sign that said see you in Beijing chinks.

[thembuzz]

where is the line, though? if doing that with your eyes in a promotional photo isn't racist, how far do you have to take it before it is? do you have to stove a chinese head in with a shovel? wipe out, or attempt to wipe out, and entire ethnic group?

half of the problem with racism is its insidiousness, not least where it falls around that blurry line where people like us can't agree on whether someone is broadcasting hate or just 'having a laugh'. i'd say it's better to err on the side of the caution in that case. i don't think there's even a valid argument for freedom of expression here. it's no more justifiable than shouting "fire!" in the proverbial theatre

[soulcheck]

I thought racism is about negative feelings towards the other race, not about making funny faces.

[JonnySpeed]

not sure if racism is higher in Spain than anywhere else. i do know its more socially acceptable to be openly racist and not challenged like it is here.

fucking smelly lazy dagos

[spoon]

where is the line, though? if doing that with your eyes in a promotional photo isn't racist, how far do you have to take it before it is? do you have to stove a chinese head in with a shovel? wipe out, or attempt to wipe out, and entire ethnic group?



What the fuck?

[Orang Utan]

Tis a good point.
One of the basketball players actually said 'some of best friends are from china' lol

[thembuzz]

I thought racism is about negative feelings towards the other race, not about making funny faces.

don't you think that making funny faces might indicate some degree of contempt?

[soulcheck]

No i don't.

edit: I also think that the press have put racism in a place where it was absent just to make people on msg boards like this talk about it.

[Orang Utan]

Political Correctness gone mad!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IYx4Bc6_eE

[thembuzz]

No i don't.

well, if that's what you think, then i've nothing else to say. except, "you're wrong"

[JonnySpeed]

what time do you go to the chinese dentist? tooth hurty

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/158/438708578_bb6a9a7969.jpg

[JonnySpeed]

Spanish looking forward to competing against Ghana

http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/3346764.jpg (http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/3346764.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=5EA23F8481D3F16F28A4D1676CC9 32F6A55A1E4F32AD3138)
(http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/3346764.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=5EA23F8481D3F16F28A4D1676CC9 32F6A55A1E4F32AD3138)

[spoon]

You're a fucking scumbag.

[emef]

on a related note
a couple of weeks ago i was telling my mum off for calling the chinese takeaway a chinky

she then ambled off to the larder and came back with a box of this

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/313VKPGKZXL._SL500_AA267_.jpg

my mum the smartarse and filthy racist

[JonnySpeed]

You're a fucking scumbag.


your slow on my mocking - er like when people say stuff and mean the opposite.

[thepigjockey]

re. the Spanish photo, the article states 'No offence is believed to have been intended'- exactly the same dumbass excuse as the one the 'Lewis Hamilton's family' bunch used. Har de har har :(

[spoon]

Article by Sid Lowe who originally brought that ad to the media's attention > http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/aug/15/olympicsandthemedia.pressandpu blishing

[spoon]

I thought this was interesting > http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/formula_1/article3341989.ece

Really, it’s hard to judge what is more ridiculous: the imbecility of four politically retarded Spanish F1 hooligans who insulted Hamilton in curly-wigged, black-boot-polish fancy dress or the frothings of the massed ranks of the British media, whose indignant ravings granted an unintended peep into the island nation’s very own entrenched and ancient prejudices, in this case regarding the racial inferiority of the benighted cultures of Mediterranean Europe – the hot-tempered Latins; the primitive-minded, passionate dagos. How wonderful to be able to cloak bigotry in virtue. How satisfying to trumpet one’s faith in Britain’s essential superiority without seeming impolite.

Which reminded me of Yer_Maw.

[thepigjockey]

It smacks more of stupidity and ignorance than malicious racism BUT I'd hesitate to say that it's not racist.

I would imagine that the people in the Hamilton's family thing probably don't have many black people in their social circle, and maybe the same applied to the athletes with Chinese people.

This is maybe why in the UK people are more finely tuned('hypersensitive') to what constitutes racist behaviour. Nowadays a lot of British people don't see a non-white face as something outside their immediate experience. The Robinson's jam gollywog thing stopped comparatively recently too, people start to get a bit of self awareness once they realise these silly things can actually hurt people's feelings.

I've seen this kind of situation in other places- one of my students used the word 'nigger' in a classroom without fully realising how bad it was. Look at an old Finnish alphabet book and you'll see that 'N is for neekeri'. Oh, and take a look at a Finnish liquorice packet- stereotypical cartoon black man's face (they just changed it, er, but all they did was colour it in- now it looks like the black man turned round to face the other way). And of course neekerinpusu, the list goes on..

In that article it's also mentioned that the British are hypersensitive about race, which is true, and of course there's all sorts of major reasons for that BUT what's the harm in being a little cautious? edit- surely being overcautious is better than drifting, as someone else mentioned, into accepting racism?

[Ro Land]

I think how you view the Olympics themselves is probably important in how you interpret this. The Olympics are the continuation of politics by other means, that doesn't mean the basic Olympic ideals aren't real.. its just they are only half the story.

So in that context I think a gesture like the one made is significant because its a leftover of the xenophobia that was eagerly encouraged by all European governments in the first half of the 20th Century... and didn't just disappear in 1944.

To consider it as a purely physical gesture without baggage is very short sighted. It's a PR image, it's propaganda in the context of an event which has historically been used as a manifestation or continuation of warfare. Like WWII propaganda cartoons of 'Krauts' with haircuts like Hitler, 'Japs' with big teeth and Jews with hooked noses.

The sports reporter in the guardian clearly fighting to save his job now, that's what I read in his follow up piece.. he knew 100% how the story would be interpreted. Don't shoot the messenger, very weak and too late.

[thembuzz]

The sports reporter in the guardian clearly fighting to save his job now, that's what I read in his follow up piece.. he knew 100% how the story would be interpreted. Don't shoot the messenger, very weak and too late.

i'm sure he did, but i've just read the article, and his description of it as a piece of straight, non-editorial reportage is accurate. he did acknowledge that no offence was intended, and at worst he described it as a "faux-pas" which "risked upsetting their chinese hosts" and was "likely to provoke... criticism". all of which is fair enough

and it was in the guardian. everyone knows what their angle is and where their sympathies lie. it's hardly a massive shock that they were interested in the photo, is it?

[Ro Land]

and it was in the guardian. everyone knows what their angle is and where their sympathies lie. it's hardly a massive shock that they were interested in the photo, is it?

of course it's not a massive shock, he knew exactly what he was doing.. he obviously didn't think far enough ahead though. This is the least interesting aspect of the story though I think.

[thembuzz]

i can't see anything about the original piece that screams "SHITSTORM". it was a 300-word story on page 9 of the sports section, which usually comes tucked inside the other daily supplements, buried about as deep in the average copy of the guardian as it's possible to get. i don't know how much less significant you can make an article

remove it from the context of the last few days, i don't think there's anything particularly remarkable about the copy itself. i read things like this in the guardian on a daily basis. i missed it myself because my copy of the sports section always goes straight into the recycling, but even if i had, i would've just read it and moved on to the next story. i wouldn't have expected it to cause anything like the fuss that it has

i think the only reason we're here discussing it is the fact that two different camps with opposing points of view both happened to pounce on it at the same time for their own reasons. add the internet to the mix, et voila - one freshly-brewed media frenzy

[JonnySpeed]

na - its racist.

only 8yo children pull their eyes back and say "ah so, wok you chink you china do" and other such crap. lets run about all blacked up and call ourselves chalky... only a true retard wouldn't see behaving like this a inappropriate - especially if you are representing your country. what next? towels on their heads and shouting "bud bud ding ding move down the bus."