Fuckin War Countdown

[KaOz]

damn, fuckin bush. now its official. we have war in few days :(. have a look at the television

[MUX]

but now...
lets be ignorant if im wrong..
war isnt an answer... it an excuse
But..
would u be happy if Saddam pressed a few buttons and wipe out a whole nation?
i know that alot of innocent ppl are going to be killed, but they knew from way before that it was going to happy and were warned to leave...

im sorry if hurt anybody feelings, but i think this man needs to be taught a lesson and if the americans are the fools willing to do it.. well good for them.

But Blair? just a English Cunt
hope my words werent too harsh but nothing we say or complian or protest about is going to count.

Did anyone know anybody that died in 9/11?
maybe there is a certain american pain that we find hard to understand and could be explained..

but i dont trust a man like saddam. his ignorance could make mistakes that no money could fix. i really have an unsure point about this debate.

[marcel]

Originally posted by MUX

would u be happy if Saddam pressed a few buttons and wipe out a whole nation?

do you think he is able to do so? no way.
ill yong kim II from north corea IS able to, whats happening to him?? noooothing.
what bush really is saying these days to the world, although he don't want it, is: 'build mass destruction weapons and make sure you will use it and we won't kick your ass'...
new world order is coming

[MUX]

that true but does Korea have beef with everyone?
at least they admit to having them in my view..

Maybe these things are too hard for the person at home to understand?

ps. i get yr drift anyhow

[marcel]

Originally posted by MUX

ps. i get yr drift anyhow

what does that mean? 'i understand you'?
sorry my english isnt the best

[MUX]

yes i understand the point your were trying to make

[marcel]

ah, okay

[MUX]

damn went to get my 'iraq' update and Saddam claims he will attack the world if the americans attack him.. thank god i dont live in a major city of this fucked up world & god bless all of you who do

how long will it take to attack if they told UN to get outta there?

[piscaries]

i live in chicago. we're the railroad hub of north america. yay.

[piscaries]

Originally posted by MUX
how long will it take to attack if they told UN to get outta there?

well, apparently bush will give sadam an ultimatum tonight: he has to leave the country in 72 hours or we go in guns ablaze. so the UN has about 3 days to get out.

[MUX]

just a funny thought.
well.. what happens? do they send a homemade tape of the speach to saddam house? like what if saddam hasnt got cable? would that also be a crisis? and all that damn spy technology and why cant they just assisinate saddam eh?

[wheezer]

Originally posted by MUX
Did anyone know anybody that died in 9/11?
maybe there is a certain american pain that we find hard to understand and could be explained..


A good friend of mine was working at the Deutsche Bank which was located either inside or right next to the WTC, I believe almost all of the employees working there died - I was of course trying to reach him by email and whatnot - about a day later he contacted me and explained that that morning he had taken the day off and flown to Europe instead... son of a bitch :)

[MUX]

wow.. now that is some well used Leave time!

[Weishaupt]

tonite(2:00 MET) bush will make a statement in the american tv. im sure, that i will say:

"Seit 5:45 wird zurückgeschossen"


Heil Bush!

[piscaries]

heil!

[MUX]

the original Paranoid Dancer(erm.. cowboy)

[invisibleplanet]

Originally posted by MUX
damn went to get my 'iraq' update and Saddam claims he will attack the world if the americans attack him.. thank god i dont live in a major city of this fucked up world & god bless all of you who do

how long will it take to attack if they told UN to get outta there?

where can i get this update?

[MUX]

read it on the squeky clean Cnn.com on a saddam meeting held yesterday

[invisibleplanet]

there has been no similar statement in the british press.
i just wondered about it's validity, or if it was usa supposition.

[MUX]

it Cnn headlines at the moment on the Tv station.
and ps. i can imagine the bent rules of transalation from iraq to english on this one.. the article main topic was saddam splitting iraq into 4 to be ready for attacks

[grobelaar]

President Saddam Hussein appeared prepared for war, warning that if Iraq is attacked the battle will be "wherever there is sky, land and water in the entire world".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2857789.stm

It's really going ahead - I feel saddened more than I feel scared. Here to Robin Cook MP his resignation speech was brilliant...

[invisibleplanet]

from the report u cited, grobs..

"Russia's Foreign Minister Igor Ivanov said on Monday that the existing resolutions do not give any legal right to launch an attack"

[piscaries]

i'm at least hoping that there will be minimal fighting. if we do go to war, i hope that iraqi soldiers lay down their arms and surrender. i know it sounds horrible but i'd rather they surrender than be killed by our soldiers. i hope we don't have to fight within the city of baghdad because that will cause mass civilian casualties. and i hope above all other things that biological and chemical and nuclear weapons are not dispensed. if war happens, i hope it is quick. i hope that the pain that will be inflicted is minimal, and i hope that the world does not fall off of balance.

[zombie ritual]

Of course they do not, but did Bush ever give a damn?

[invisibleplanet]

last gulf war casualties:
760 Americans: 294 dead, 400 wounded or ill, 221,000 awarded disability

Of those americans who died, most died as a direct result of uranium munitions friendly fire. Us forces killed and wounded US forces.
More than 100 American soldiers were exposed to Uranium Munitions by their own forces.

None of the troops were warned about the effects of Uranium Munitions on them, or the effects of blowing up the remaining Iraqi stockpile of Chemical and biological warfare which had been sold to the Iraqis to fight the Iranians BY THE AMERICANS.

Death Toll for IRAQ

150,000 Iraqis

[piscaries]

that's more people than the town i grew up in. imagine a whole town just killed.. disturbing.

[grobelaar]

Originally posted by MUX
just a funny thought.
well.. what happens? do they send a homemade tape of the speach to saddam house? like what if saddam hasnt got cable? would that also be a crisis? and all that damn spy technology and why cant they just assisinate saddam eh?

Fuck man you've got some funny ideas. Check up on the history of the CIA, its things like assassinations 'attempts', supported coups in backwater countrues that have got us into this fucking mess...

Whatever weapons Saddam has he is doing nothing which any permanent member of the security council has already done.

But assassination would be funny - it would end in a total disaster, they'd have to get the Israelis to do it - there the only ones with an recent assassination experience and that was a total fuck up... no I'm sorry MUX, I'm a bit stoned, but you've bought a big smile to my face...

[grobelaar]

Originally posted by invisibleplanet
last gulf war casualties:
79 Americans
150,000 Iraqis

Yeah and most of the americans managed to get killed by their own side... :-)

[MUX]

Ip : that grob post is it exactly what the qoute i read

[invisibleplanet]

i THINK IT WAS MORE THAN THAT, SO i CHANGED MY POST AFTER READING THIS DOCUMENT.
http://www.carrollsweb.com/melindajc/uranium.pdf

[invisibleplanet]

HERE'S SOME MORE INFOS:

all of it a little unsure of the exact number of casualties.
actual U.S. casualties were a mere fraction of these two estimates 147 Killed In Action and 457 Wounded In Action. At least at first look.


But within weeks after our warriors took off their boots and hung up their rifles, dozens, then hundreds, of Gulf War vets became casualties. And as the years tick by, this figure has already grown to tens of thousands.
(http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=14169)

This following statement taken from The Arkansas League of the South document - only available in .doc format: http://cpt_peewee.tripod.com/new%20FreeArkansas%20booklet%2 0readable.doc
" We believe Americans are tired of being the world's policemen.
The South has a proud military tradition. However, most of us don't realize that though the South is historically one fourth of the American population, It is our children who fight the bulk of America's wars. In WWI, Southerners made up 26% of the military. In WWII, it was 34%. Korea, 35%. Vietnam, 36%. The Gulf War, 41%. Notice a trend? Southern kids also make up the bulk of America's war casualties. Gulf War syndrome is mainly a Southern illness. Today, young Southern men and women make up more than 50% of America's armed forces. It's mainly economics nowadays, but we faired better under the draft. For every two Southern kids that go to Bosnia, Afghanistan, or whatever current Third World brushfire is burning, there's one kid in the other three fourths of America that gets to stay home and play Nintendo. Southerners are real popular when there's a desert or a jungle that needs invading. The Arkansas League of the South pledges to fight for an economic alternative to the military for all our children using all legal and honorable means. When the dying is done, the South loses the wars that America wins"

gulf war vets association (http://www.gulfwarvets.com/)

The death toll for the [iraqi] conscripted farmers, bank managers and teachers, hardly fed poorly paid, and certainly not trained for the task, was catastrophic (http://members.tripod.com/terrywalker2/)

[grobelaar]

The current thinking is that it was the cocktail of drugs against chemical weapons that caused 'gulf war' syndrome. yet a good friend of mine is a virulogist. Quite big he is currently doing a lot of research into AIDS and HIV vaccines and he states there is no evidence for this, only a supposition that this could be the cause.

Remarkably the symptoms of gulf war are almost the same as long term battle fatigue or shell-shock. I wander if the stress of being in a modern war situation perhaps puts the body and mind under such extreme stress that it causes the body to break down. After all there is proof that mental stress can leave the body vulnerable and low its immune system - I wonder how drastic that can get...

[7875]

i think its funny that Bush claims to want to free the people of Iraq from this evil dictator and will do so by bombing Baghdad into oblivion. so, how can this help them if their city is left in ruin and all the people are fucking dead? there is never much attention put into the issues of homelessness, lack of jobs, lack of funding for education and lack of available health care for the inhabitants of this country. aren't those important issues? what is the point is "preserving the american way" by spending an estimated 80 billion dollars to fight against someone who for the past 12 years has posed no real threat to America. if the United States hadn't been fucking over everyone around the world then maybe people wouldn't feel motivated to commit acts of terrorism in this country. by taking this action against Iraq, isn't that sending the message to nations all over the world that the US only seeks to dominate anyone that is opposed to the "american way of life?"
is it ultimately that the "american way of life" is to divide and conquer any civilization in its path no matter what the consequences?

[MUX]

note: they are planning to re-build iraq after the war if im correct.

[c s]

no. this will be left to the u.n. - as usual. but of course they'll install leaders that won't refuse them anything no more.

[piscaries]

i think the us will do as little damage to the city as possible. they are planning on occupying it after a war... if they do destroy things they will be strategic, leaving major things in place. probably not touching the power grid or water systems. but then again, the us government already has 8 companies bidding on rebuilding contracts, including haliburton (where dick cheney was former ceo? of). it may be politically profitable to destroy the whole city so that the rebuilding companies make more money and in turn give more money to the governing parties....

[Mui]

aaah fuckit......just announced this morning, australia is committing troops definately......bloody howard, he's probably the only person in this country that actually wants to join the US....

[piscaries]

poland also dedicated 200 troops to the cause. hehe.

[kungfoo]

Hm.. Amerika is no longer a valid member of the U.N. in my point of view.. they always just used this institution for their purposes and ignored it, when they didn't agree with the american opinion. This time the american governement topped everything - and accept a great loss of live and much much suffering of the iraqy people.

[wheezer]

PRESIDENT BUSH AGREES TO MORE INSPECTORS (AP) Washington DC 4:00 PM (EST),

President George Bush has made an announcement that we will not attack Iraq.

The President has announced that as of today, he is agreeing to additional inspectors to be deployed throughout the country of Iraq. We will be sending 250,000 additional inspectors into Iraq. The additional inspectors will include:

- 24,000 members of the 1st Infantry Division

- 15,000 members of the 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault)

- 15,000 members of the 82d Airborne Division

- More than 5,000 members of the 4th armored division with their "M1-A1 all-terrain vehicles"

- Additional U.S. Army personnel, as needed for inspections

- A variety of U.S. Air Force personnel for aerial recon missions and other "surveillance" activities.

- A significant number of United States Marines to aid with inspections

- United States Coast Guard personnel to inspect coastlines

- An undisclosed number of Rangers, Green Berets, Navy Seals, Recon Marines, Delta Force, and other:

- Special Operations personnel to inspect Iraqi "hide-aways"

- MOAB and Daisy-Cutter bunker access devices

- Special air deliveries to aid the inspections will be made by aircraft from the USS Constellation, USS George Washington, USS Abraham Lincoln and USS Enterprise.

_The President stated: "With these additional resources, the inspections should be completed in a few weeks (not months -- not years)."

[7875]

maybe they're planning on opening a Starbucks, McDonalds and Disneyland Baghdad? shit, it isn't about oil at all. it's about free enterprise!!

[actionjetzon]

america will probably use bombs, which build up such a big blast, or s.th. like that, that the human organs go broken, but the most buildings can resist it.

the US will start to cry when the first coffins of their soldiers return to home. this war will a lot more us boys die than at the last gulf war

[wheezer]

this war will also set new standards in terms of media coverage - if you thought gulf war I was sick, get ready for gulf war II: die harder

[ischo]

oh yeah, media coverage... good point:
A: "and here you see a nifty lil 100lb cluster bomb"
B: "whow, that's terrific"
A: "it comes with built-in human waste diposer...aaaand,
you get this super sturdy red-white-blue bobybag....for free"
B: "for free????"
A: "yes, absolutely free, call now for your......"

and so on....

[grobelaar]

No, lets not beat about the bush - The US is planning on bombing the country into oblivion - there's going to be massive casualties - in what must surely rate as one of the most cowardly battle plans in the history of warfare. If war is happening - then I feel that the US approach to it is cowardly and without honour. What they do should be banned under something similar to the Geneva convention - the daily bombing of the 'retreating' Republican Guard units at the end of the last war - was horrific and to hear US pilots boasting about refueling and rearming their A10s get back in then and flying straight back out on another sortie was disgusting and they call them heroes. I call them cowards - whacked out of their faces on miltary amphetamines...

[wheezer]

ah well everyone was doing speed back in those days, how do you think the germans were ever able to blitzkrieg in the first place?

[actionjetzon]

i heared about popular people in the US who criticise the war, e.g. like Richard Gere and other actors, don´t got a invitation to the Oscar awards...and that altho he is suggested to get one for his new film...
These actors, who criticise the war, loose their right of employment, because they got no offers to act!

no words necessary!!!

Even i´ve heard that the French Fries don´t get called that anymore. They turned into Liberty Fries or s.th. like that.....is that right?

[wheezer]

action we even had a thread about the freedom fries here...

[actionjetzon]

really?...okay i search for it

[CHIP TRONIC]

wouldn´t it cooler if they (Bush, Hussein) both bought a copy of C&C Generals and duelled each other over the web?
Westwood could develop a special IRAQ War campaign.
Both parties could talk about what happened if one side won, etc.



WAR IS DEAD!!!

LONG LIVE THE REAL TIME STRATEGY GAMES!!!

[CHIP TRONIC]

A little Song (http://www.domdummaste.se/bomb_iraq.html)

slight text variation (http://www.bdragon.com/entries/000189.shtml)

[wired]

...the war couldn't be stopped, equal what we and others do... bush wants this war, he wanted it months ago... the americans are the world's biggest agressor, and actually the only democratic country which attacks another country first.
america has atomar, biological and chemical weapons, and nobody says something against...
after this second gulf war president bush should be arrested and taken before the war tribunal in den haag (u.n. war court) because he's a war criminal like much others...
every war is bad, but the americans think it's a good war, for them. but when the first u.s. soldiers die, they would wake up and realize that they shouldn't play god...

peace!

[wheezer]

dude it's a parody, read the text and stop hogging the weed lol

[Andreas]

talking about war: http://www.cool.mb.ca/~kakel/halabja.html

[invisibleplanet]

Originally posted by wheezer
ah well everyone was doing speed back in those days, how do you think the germans were ever able to blitzkrieg in the first place?

the four canadian peacekeepers in afghanistan were klilled by pilots on speed. they still use it.

worrying about the aussies joining in - shades of vietnam

[Andreas]

about the history:

http://www.observer.co.uk/iraq/story/0,12239,914912,00.html

[enigmatic]

What this incident demonstrates to me is that the UN is useless.

The UN was created for a purpose but if countries like USA and many others constantly ignore resolutions because it doesnt suit them then why does the UN exist?

[goinz]

I think if the war really beginns without UN that will only be the beginning and we can close the UN.

[mr franks]

..this war will destroy the UN, it will be seen as impotent.
- well done robin cook, clair short should've done the same.

[piscaries]

unfortunately the league of nations was formed for a reason.. but it was abandoned

[jess-ssej]

This war is total BS...the worst part is that I have no idea what to believe...how much of the information that we get from mainstream media is "true"?

I saw on the Today show this morning ("real" newsworthy! ha!), that new polls show 71% support for the war...up 12% from last week.... I mean am I supposed to believe this?

As a sociology major...I'm inclined to believe these are creative numbers... I don't know whats scarier...the implication of propaganda like that...or the idea that 71% of Americans *might* really support Bush.

Both scare the crap out of me.

[pille'ocheoni]

yeah....here comes the high taxes

[piscaries]

there's actually a lot of supporters in the south. it's almost like the north and south never integrated mentally or socially after the civil war

[actionjetzon]

when bush will attacks without the UN agreement, he definite violates against the law...at least in germany.
He would become to a war-crimÃ*nal and have to be arrested when he sets one feet on germanys ground...;)

imagine how scary that could all ends

[piscaries]

but we're not part of the war tribunals because he probably expected something like this to happen. my heads all fucked up now. i don't know what to do or think anymore. this is all just really fucked up. i suppose i should just start living like there's no tomorrow?

[Yer_Maw]

Originally posted by 7875
i think its funny that Bush claims to want to free the people of Iraq from this evil dictator and will do so by bombing Baghdad into oblivion. so, how can this help them if their city is left in ruin and all the people are fucking dead? there is never much attention put into the issues of homelessness, lack of jobs, lack of funding for education and lack of available health care for the inhabitants of this country.

but you would agree with overseas intervention to provide food aid wouldnt you? how come this idea doesnt stretch to political causes? do you not feel that countries do have a duty to help others, even poilitically. Saddam Hussain is not a good man and neither is bush. But whos rule would you rather live under?

[piscaries]

ralph nader's :!

[Yer_Maw]

so it was your fault then! :) :)

[piscaries]

heheh..

[enigmatic]

Originally posted by Yer_Maw
do you not feel that countries do have a duty to help others, even poilitically?

Tell me where were the USA, UK, UN etc when the Rowanda genocide took place?

Do you know why NOONE did anything? The excuse for the UN not intervening was that it was an "internal" issue not an international problem. Millions died in Rowanda but yet NO COUNTRY did a single thing to help.

Yes something has to be done about Saddam but not by two coutries. The UN is there for a bloody purpose so why not let it to its job.

Patience is a virtue the USA need to learn.

I am FOR war but only with the backing of the UN.

A united front is always better than a scanty front ;-)

[Ubik]

If bush attack iraq because they are not observing onu resolutions, why he don' t attack israel that has violated 73 resolution?

[enigmatic]

BLAIR'S WAR REBELLION

Tony Blair has won Commons backing for war against Iraq - but suffered another backbench rebellion.


In a dramatic vote, 412 MPs supported a Government motion calling for MPs to back "all means necessary" to disarm Saddam Hussein.

But 149 MPs voted against the motion - including 83 Labour rebels.

In a separate vote, more than a third of MPs - 217 in total - backed a rebel amendment stating that the case for war had not yet been established - including 136 from the Labour Party.

Some 396 MPs voted against the amendment, signalling their support for war.

Sky News political editor Adam Boulton said: "It's a relatively good result for the Government although it's a record breaking revolt.

"He (Mr Blair) has the support of his party, the Conservatives, and the Ulster Unionists, so he has a clear majority of support.

"Democracy has spoken and the Government has won."

[MUX]

oh that saddam count-down thing clock on cnn is just SO cheesy

[piscaries]

what kind of cheese? that really makes a difference on whether i like it or not.

[wheezer]

I saw on the Today show this morning ("real" newsworthy! ha!), that new polls show 71% support for the war...up 12% from last week.... I mean am I supposed to believe this?

85% of all statistics are made up

[Ruben A]

Originally posted by MUX
oh that saddam count-down thing clock on cnn is just SO cheesy

jup... like launching a new tv-serie or venue or something like that!?
But maybe that´s just what the americans want this war to be? A huge media event!

What´s wrong with the reporters joining the front??? They can´t blame anyone if they get killed!! Heard some of them probably would bring a gun or maybe a knife... to protect themself.... yes... good luck.. Suckers!!!

USA.... USA.... tsktsk...

:illin: :(

[invisibleplanet]

imo
given the situation,
saddham needs to make the sacrifice and go into exile.
he has 16 hrs

his position is not worth the lives of his countrymen

[mr franks]

Originally posted by invisibleplanet
imo
given the situation,
saddham needs to make the sacrifice and go into exile.


....hes not going to do that tho is he? he is righteous in his view, his country is being fucked. - i really hope that he does as he will stop the killing but i cant see it. his sons wont have it either.

[Yoss]

all this mad situation was made by the 80´s CIA foreign politic. USA made all that subterrain strategies to control the petro-countries and, now we have Saddam Hussein, Omar Gadaffi, Osama Bin Laden... and many other.

USA goverment hypocrisy is an insult to the people that don´t have a 2 minutes memory.

Mr Bush is not the World´s Sheriff, we don´t need him at all. USA army industry is the one that needs a clawn like Bush...

In the WTC many people die, we saw that everyday in the CNN like a fucking loop, but the CNN doesn´t show the images of all the people that dies everyday in Irak, Sudan and many other coutries because of their economic interest in those countries.

Stop hypocrisy, Stop the WAR

bye,

Yoss

[KaOz]

word

[Yoss]

http://www.answering-christianity.com/iraqi_torture.htm

nice family portraits to put over the desk....

[invisibleplanet]

GENOCIDE

and Japan are behind Bush?

[MUX]

yoss : please out up a warning after your link.
some of those images are more than disturbing

But how do they know that it was there amercians that did that when saddam leashes chemical weapons onto his own people?
im sorry when it comes to this and the net is used to release material but no one says that all that is written in such articles is 100% trust worthy and valid

its all a matter of opinion

Ps. if the war does break out i think we should have day of silence on the board. not to show off. not to brag. but to show respect for the courage of the people that are fighting this war. neccassary or not.

[Ubik]

dear mux if you prefer to believe to cnn......

[MUX]

do u blow out a lit match before it burns yr fingers?

sorry but i agree that iraq should be attacked. hope it doent hurt anyone feelings but i think that saddam's pushing his luck. men like this are in history books for stuff like this. i think the world could have learned it lesson by now.

Off-topic : Ubik Surphase (roma) are holding a festival in june

[platinumray]

shouldn't the u.s be consistant with regards to attacking tyrants like saddam?

[gunjack]

Originally posted by invisibleplanet
GENOCIDE

and Japan are behind Bush?


of course nippon can not burn its bridges with the usa. if you do a bit more reading however, you will see that the japanese sdf will NOT be providing logistic, military or finnancial assistance to the united states campaign in the gulf this time around.

[c s]

Originally posted by MUX
to show respect for the courage of the people that are fighting this war.

i'm afraid you lack some information man...

[c s]

Originally posted by MUX
sorry but i agree that iraq should be attacked.

...a lot of information.

[gunjack]

stop being such a freakin hard on CS.......... you dont think it takes courage to leave your family and go fight in a war?!

[invisibleplanet]

IRAK (http://www.u4us.com/int/ibf/index.php?act=ST&f=59&t=3547&st=25#entry77736)
hilfe bitte!!!

http://www.stern.de/suche/search.do?q=uranium%2Birak

[decadnids]

Originally posted by wheezer


85% of all statistics are made up

is that part of the 85% that is made up?
the statistic about statistics being made up.

[wheezer]

yes, recursion forever.

[decadnids]

yeah - statistics are bollox, tho - have to agree, people throw them about all the time, as it looks impressive and it makes out that you know what you are talking about.

the other day someone came out with - in a dictionary (english) 99 percent of the words are negative. I had to disagree, as that just sounds like a load of bollocks (he was some sort of corporate trainer, twat!).

[wheezer]

well I dunno if they're bollox alltogether, but of course it depends how they are used and how they were gathered...

[decadnids]

The majority of statistics are gathered to back up some pre-defined goal. so a lot of the time statistics are used to aid people in gaining support from others. obvoiously someone will present some statistical data as evidence and other people will not have the inkling to go out there and research this data themselves.

it is quite easy to fix statistical data, anyone who has done anything within statistics will know how easy it is to impose upon the data gathered the desired response from others.

ofcourse, statistics can be useful.

[wheezer]

word.

[c s]

Originally posted by gunjack
stop being such a freakin hard on CS.......... you dont think it takes courage to leave your family and go fight in a war?!

no, it just takes disinformation and propaganda that brainwashes you until you believe it's worth it.

the us are claiming to bring 'freedom' to the world while at the same time in the us themselves civil rights and the right of free speech are cut, discrimination & total surveillance are legalised, a system based on oppression and fear is installed - of course only for the citizen's own good. it just takes a look at that to prove it all wrong.

[gunjack]

ok, right. but WTF does all that have to do with you saying Mux idea for a day of silence to honor the individuals in combat was "lacking information"?!

[c s]

btw i don't blame those who cannot make real judgements for they lack information and just have propaganda in their heads, for example both iraqi and us soldiers. how can they judge when they're just shown a small part of the picture. i do blame the leaders who know very well what they're doing, they use fear and hollow patriotism for their own goals. they don't believe their own words, they're just using it all to keep the population in line.

[decadnids]

I think a day of silence would be a good idea, but I feel it would be better suited if we put our thoughts for all those involved. that includes all fighters, civilians, and aid workers for both sides.

I am not going to take sides in this war. I disagree with the war, but also respect the fact that Saddam is a dangerous man.

I believe that there could of been other means to sorting this whole issue out rather than going to war.

[gunjack]

Originally posted by c s
btw i don't blame those who cannot make real judgements for they lack information and just have propaganda in their heads, for example both iraqi and us soldiers. how can they judge when they're just shown a small part of the picture. i do blame the leaders who know very well what they're doing, they use fear and hollow patriotism for their own goals. they don't believe their own words, they're just using it all to keep the population in line.

you still didnt answer my question....

what gives you the right to call mux ignorant for proposing a day of silence?!

[c s]

Originally posted by gunjack
ok, right. but WTF does all that have to do with you saying Mux idea for a day of silence to honor the individuals in combat was "lacking information"?!

i think he wanted to honour the gi's - no way i'd do that. human material fed into a deadly machine by mad leaders cannot be "honoured", it can only be pitied.

[decadnids]

Originally posted by c s


i think he wanted to honour the gi's - no way i'd do that. human material fed into a deadly machine by mad leaders cannot be "honoured", it can only be pitied.

you can still honour the dead.....
war is an one of the evilest manifestations of mans greed and pride.


as I said, a day of silence for all those involved, both sides, equal etc.... would you not consider that?

[c s]

there's nothing i hate more than hollow patriotism, the "honour of soldiers"... soldiers are drilled to kill on command, just like robots. the first thing they learn in the army is to switch off their brain. no surprise leaders have to come up with a strong dose of glorification to beat the impression that men are made idiots in armies.

[gunjack]

the fact that you look at the GIs as "human material" as well and pity them accordingly makes you as heartless and clueless as the machine you are condemning

[decadnids]

Cs mate,

if - at any time, the country you were in was under attack, I am assuming from your opinion, that you wouldn't want the soldiers of your country to protect you.... is that correct?

I have met many people that have been in the services, and you make out that all that join are total clueless idiots.

people join up for a whole host of reasons.
come on mate, get things in perspective.

[c s]

Originally posted by decadnids
as I said, a day of silence for all those involved, both sides, equal etc.... would you not consider that?

i think it's hypocritical to do something like that here. the war won't be over in a day, and then? we'll continue as normal while more people die. so we could as well be as doing that from the start, it's just honest in my opinion.

i might go out on the street, but then not only on day 1.

also we had no slience here either when the us started to bomb their playgound afghanistan where it is still totally unknown how many people were killed and if they were guilty of anything at all.

[c s]

Originally posted by gunjack
the fact that you look at the GIs as "human material" as well and pity them accordingly makes you as heartless and clueless as the machine you are condemning

who would pity lifeless material? it was just some bitter cynicism.

[decadnids]

Originally posted by c s



also we had no slience here either when the us started to bomb their playgound afghanistan where it is still totally unknown how many people were killed and if they were guilty of anything at all.

just because it didnt happen then, doesn't mean it shouldn't happen now.

why is it hypocrytical? sorry, don't see that at all.

I am not saying we should do this for the "GI's" I am saying it might be worth it regarding the WHOLE ISSUE OF THE WAR.

you are not reading what I have been saying.

[gunjack]

Originally posted by c s


who would pity lifeless material? it was just some bitter cynicism.


oh yeah. bitter cynicism is exactly what we need in times of crisis. your head is so far up your arse mate, i am not even going to attempt to explain the concept of empathy to you for a 3rd time.

[s0m3:b1rd]

hello. i'm new here.
i'm just off to USAB fairford to protest as the b52s take off this arvo.
anyone got a msg they want me to give em?
or any good chants?

[phil]

say "wacka wacka wacka, your not going to sirius"

[s0m3:b1rd]

wacka wacka wacka, you're not going to sirius

[phil]

waCKA WACKA WACKA

[gunjack]

dont mind phil, he is the local jizz bucket

[phil]

gunjack, hows the trip?

[c s]

Originally posted by decadnids
Cs mate,

if - at any time, the country you were in was under attack, I am assuming from your opinion, that you wouldn't want the soldiers of your country to protect you.... is that correct?

come on, please not this one - i heard it a million times. can't you see the difference, the comparison is totally out of place in this case. although us leaders tried very hard (with lies & manipulation) to construct a link between 911 and iraq because they knew they could sell this war as "defense" then and people would like it better - they didn't manage.

so what does attacking iraq have to do with defending a country's own territory? nothing.

btw, i'm still waiting for the "profound evidence" that al kaida and afghanistan had something to do with 911 to be published.

I have met many people that have been in the services, and you make out that all that join are total clueless idiots.
people join up for a whole host of reasons.


yeah, for career/money reasons, for some adventure action, for patriotism... i know those reasons, they're the same everywhere (in democracies where you can choose if you want to join the army, not in iraq where soldiers are recruited by force). putting on a uniform is for those who are nothing as an individual, it's surrendering, giving your life to the machinery (to keep this metaphor) and to leaders who can do with you whatever they want. it's too late when they probably realise what's really going on, like in vietnam. i don't think without a certain amount of disinformation and propaganda anyone would join any army at all.

[gunjack]

Originally posted by phil
gunjack, hows the trip?

ok mate. things are slower than i thought. but a couple big shows coming up, so i am just killin time for a couple days...... you good? did yo ever get a popper stopper for yer mic? juss teasin brah, stay up!

[phil]

shut up cs, you just got punked, you little bitch ass mother fucker.

[decadnids]

CS -
the fact of the matter is that you claimed that all soldiers where brainwashed grunts that had no thought of their own.

therefore, it stands to reason that you would not want these idiots to help you if you where getting killed .

I am not comparing the war in iraq to what I said earlier, although the people of iraq are being attacked.



you go on about disinformation and propaganda as if you where the king of conspiracy theories.

yes the army or any other forms of the armed service is here to follow the words of the people in power.
and I wouldn't join the army, its not in my blood.

but the way you assume that the "people in the army" are drones, totally brainwashed idiots is pretty fucking niave.

wake up mate. get out your head and see the bigger picture.

[gunjack]

now now phil, lets keep this civilised.......








http://www.hypedesign3.com/ish/war_on.gif



ooooooooops

[c s]

Originally posted by gunjack
oh yeah. bitter cynicism is exactly what we need in times of crisis.

so you mean i should rather light a candle and pray for peace in it's light?

btw, your position is totally unclear as you just asked all the time but never stated anything.

[s0m3:b1rd]

phil, you wanna come to fairford? we could do with a foul-mouthed insulting member of the party and you could well be the man for the job ;)

[gunjack]

no mate, i am not saying join hands and pray for peace by cadle light or whatever, all i am saying is that we needto appreciate the various details of every human element involved in this latest spot of conflict we have brought upon ourselves. a butterfly flaps its wings in china........ a monsoon in the amazon. things arent so black and white as you make them out to be. everyone hates killing and war, even the people who benefit from it are not immune to the commonality that binds us all together - our own vulnerability as fleshy bags of mostly water.

[decadnids]

putting on a uniform is for those who are nothing as an individual, it's surrendering, giving your life to the machinery (to keep this metaphor) and to leaders who can do with you whatever they want

this is the biggest crock of shit I have ever heard.
for fuck sake mate.
you so fucking individual are you?

[gunjack]

C_S, what if your dad was in the services. can you admit at least that you would feel diferently in that instance?!

[decadnids]

My dad used to be in both the army and navy.

he is and never was some brainwashed grunt that did what ever was told of him.

I have known a lot of people who have been in the army, and they are ALL totally individual. so for CS to claim

"putting on a uniform is for those who are nothing as an individual"

is utter arse wank.
these people are able to maintain their individuality within a system that tries to prevent that.

[decadnids]

CS for the records, I do agree with you in respect to patriotism and all that shite that fuels a lot of people in war time, I don't agree with it.

I am just a little jaded by your rather RASH generalisations.

[phil]

<embed src="http://www32.brinkster.com/philiet23/prick.swf">

[s0m3:b1rd]

i reckon its true that some people join the army cos they wanna help people - as do some people who join the police force (???) but u gotta admit that anyone who's up for getting woken up at some ridiculous hour every morning and being told what to do all the time has gotta be a bit fuckin strange.

*ready and waiting to be told i'm a cunt*

[decadnids]

Som3:b1rd

I think most people are fucking strange,


people work in office jobs and waste their life away punching computer keys, is that not strange?
people do a lot of strange things
some people join the armed forces as they have no other option, life can be a bitch.

I am not defending the army, or anything like that, so don't get me wrong, I am anti-war.

[enigmatic]

Originally posted by MUX
sorry but i agree that iraq should be attacked. hope it doent hurt anyone feelings but i think that saddam's pushing his luck. men like this are in history books for stuff like this. i think the world could have learned it lesson by now.

I agree with you ;-) hehe mux not everyone on this board is anti-war

[s0m3:b1rd]

yes, office jobs are rubbish and wouldn't we all like to do something better but give me an office job over the army any day.
at least if you've got an office job you can go home at 5 and forget about it. not much hope of that for those geezers probably shitting themselves in the desert as we speak.

[phil]

big up enignmatic. :-) ;-) he hehe . not everyone one on this board designed the argos logo. big up bro, keep your head up.

[decadnids]

like I said, the army wouldn't be my choice either, but I do not begrudge others for their choices.
its not as if in england we have to join the army, so it is all down to choice.....

[s0m3:b1rd]

i wasn't disputing that

[phil]

well done for not disputing that.

[gunjack]

http://koti.mbnet.fi/~latuman/forum/More%20Shit%20Please.jpg

[s0m3:b1rd]

thx phil!

[phil]

thanks for your thanks.

[s0m3:b1rd]

this could go on...............

oh yes, empty your pm box by the way, i'm trying to reply to you.

[phil]

oh yeah.mmm...im so horny.

btw will there be cameras filming all the street fights and battles?

[gunjack]

http://koti.mbnet.fi/~latuman/forum/pace.jpg

[s0m3:b1rd]

blerdy hell, very demanding on this board aren't you?

[gunjack]

http://koti.mbnet.fi/~latuman/forum/newbiegun.jpg

[phil]

gunjack stop being a knob.

[s0m3:b1rd]

and so welcoming

[gunjack]

http://koti.mbnet.fi/~latuman/forum/scaredcat.jpg

[s0m3:b1rd]

oh no, i really really love cats.
...better?

[gunjack]

http://koti.mbnet.fi/~latuman/forum/getthefuckout.jpg

[phil]

hope your plane crashes gunjack

[gunjack]

thats fucked up phil

[phil]

nice site

http://www.deafmosaic.com/

[pille'ocheoni]

yeah thats really fucked up phil....................kill brian?................kill you mother fucker.

[phil]

fuck off u american poo stain.

[KaOz]

iam a cat!

[gunjack]

hey phil i was just initiating your little friend. [sadaam voice]why so tense guy? relaaaaaax. [/sadaam voice]

[pille'ocheoni]

phil whats your address?

[pille'ocheoni]

or better yet whats your phone number?

[s0m3:b1rd]

oh come on, of ways to go, plane crash has gotta be up there - imagine the rush as the plane drops a few thousand feet to the ground.
granted, the decapitation bit might be a bit hideous.....

[phil]

12 pille 0 shite street
pilldophile ave
chim chimini
marshall forest
el miembro de gaylord
USA

[Yer_Maw]

Originally posted by enigmatic


I agree with you ;-) hehe mux not everyone on this board is anti-war

me too.

if anyone can be arsed looking i did go on a massive rant about it in a thread a while back started by me.

[s0m3:b1rd]

kaoz - are you referring to my initial cat post or the edited version?

[gunjack]

Originally posted by phil
12 pille 0 shite street
pilldophile ave
chim chimini
marshall forest
el miembro de gaylord
USA


http://koti.mbnet.fi/~latuman/forum/bobbythekitten.jpg

[pille'ocheoni]

well whats your real name phil?

[pille'ocheoni]

fuck that, ill get your ip and figure that out

[phil]

Tony

[gunjack]

http://koti.mbnet.fi/~latuman/forum/garyanddave.jpg

[phil]

my IP: smell.my.dirty.unwiped.bum.hol e.1

[pille'ocheoni]

nevermind phil...............its ok

[phil]

your a real sad lonely cunt pille'ocheoni, your posts reek of cow dung.

[gunjack]

http://koti.mbnet.fi/~latuman/forum/failure.jpg

[phil]

your planes gonna go BANG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


muahahhahahahah be scared...karma comes around..muhahahha

[s0m3:b1rd]

gunjack - do you post so many pics cos you can't write? ;-)

[pille'ocheoni]

at that your fucking due for your death phil................karma.phhh ..........your a fucking joke.

i but love you so much..................:)

phil for pres!

[phil]

no dice cats bum nose.

[gunjack]

http://koti.mbnet.fi/~latuman/forum/ChangingSubject.jpg

[s0m3:b1rd]

blimey, one insult and suddenly i'm phil.
other people can be insulting you know.
(....and sometimes its just a joke and they mean well.)

[phil]

gunjack..in the sky no one can hear you scream!!!!!

[s0m3:b1rd]

anyway, about the war...............

[pille'ocheoni]

phil has 37 differnt names, and your guilty untill proven inocent

[enigmatic]

gosh you guys really manage to go off topic dont you? :D

ok heres my reply to a similar thread in another pb :)

be warned i wriote A LOT *g*

Sorry that the post will be in english.

At first I was against the war on IRAQ because I feel all forms of war are wrong. I didnt base my opinion on any fact I based it on the fact that "innocent people will be killed"

But now I think about it a lot more clearly.

Anti-war people are vehemently against war, they say that there should be other ways but really is there?

For years now, Saddam has been tolerated, the world has watched him killed maybe MILLIONS of his own people and done nothing. We see the news on tv and all we say is "aww shit I wish I could so something" but yet we do nothing.

These people have no life, they are oppressed by Saddam and they all live in fear of their lived if they dare to go against Saddam in anyway.

The UN has not done much to help remove Saddam from IRAQ because it was not deemed as an INTERNATIONAL issue. This is of importance because the UN will only intervene in such problems if it is INTERNATIONAL. This was the reason why noone did anything in ROWANDA when the genocide took place.

Now the USA made the issue of IRAQ an international issue by saying that they are developing weapons of mass destruction etc (although everyone should bare in mind that USA did not give sufficient proof of this to convince the world).

IRAQ has already broken FOURTEEN of the UN resolutions but the UN did not take action in anyway. they have allowed this situation to escalate to the point of no turning back.

I am FOR war but I would have much prefered it to have had the UN backing because then it can be viewed as a "just war" but since France (also bare in mind that France are not vetoing the war because they think its wrong or so, they are only vetoing it because they too have BILLIONS to make from Iraq due to contracts they haev signed)has used its veto in the security council this will not happen.

Anti-war people keep saying war is wrong and war will not achieve anything, so I put this question to them if war is not done what else should be done since the UN has proved to be so INCOMPETENT in dealing with Iraq?

At least with war we can be 99% sure that Saddam will not be president anymore.

At least with war we may say that the people of Iraq will be better off because they will not be ruled by a tyrant anymore, a tyrant who cares NOTHING FOR HIS OWN PEOPLE EXCEPT HIMSELF.

At least after the war no matter who gets to govern the country at least they will be BETTER THAN HAVING SADDAM in power.

Some people say ok if USA now start a war with IRAQ what about othe rmiddle eastern countries? Well for this I say why not deal with the problem in front of you now rather than letting the future consequences bother you.

Ok the USA helped put Saddam in power but because of that does that mean that they should not correct THEIR MISTAKE?

Its like saying you give a criminal a gun and this criminal shoots people and kills. Do you say that "well i gave him teh gun so i have to leave him alone to kil people" or do you say "yes, I gave him the gun but now it is time to take it way so that he doesnt get the chance to kill more people"?

There is no POINT at all always saying "well USA ALLOWED SADDAM TO BE IN THE POSITION" because it does not help the PEOPLE OF IRAQ!

Its just a shame that the USA never seems to learn from their mistakes and they always seem to support corrupt regimes that eventually turn out to be an embarassment to them.

I sincerely hope that this will make them think twice before they support regimes that benefit them... but I doubt it.

I think rather than look at this objectively people (anti-war) are letting their anti-american views see the situation in a proper fashion

Yes BUSH may be a bastard

Yes BUSH may be fighting this war jsut for oil

Yes BUSH might be an asshole for not waiting for the UN

BUT

at least SOMETHING will be done and even if some people die (and NO i am not saying that this is ok) the majority will be free and be able to build a BETTER future.

Think about it, before WWII started in in UK there was a petition where over 7MILLION people signed AGAINST THE WAR. What would have happened if the majority had been listened to then? Where would we be now? Had they waited and not defeated Hitler what would the world be like now?

My question at the moment would be "WHY are the USA now so EAGER to do right by the IRAQ PEOPLE?" To me it seems very odd.

I just think people should see both side of the story and not let their hatred for USA power cloud theri judgement.

Lets not blame the USA for EVERYTHING thats wrong in the world. They are bad but not that bad.

I am simply trying to be objective :)

[gunjack]

you all need to relax. its all in good fun

[s0m3:b1rd]

pille - weren't you banging on about democracy, freedom etc not so long ago? methinx that guilty until proven innocent statement of yours is slightly hypocritical.

[gunjack]

R-E-L-A-X all of you! start being funny or go away!!!!!!!!!!

[s0m3:b1rd]

sorry. if you could've heard me say that it would've been different. its hard to be sarcastic in writing.

[gunjack]

http://koti.mbnet.fi/~latuman/forum/GoYou.gif

[s0m3:b1rd]

i fear you all have the wrong impression of me already.
.....oh why do i always find it so hard to make friends?

*sniffle*

[theorie]

Originally posted by MUX


sorry but i agree that iraq should be attacked. hope it doent hurt anyone feelings but i think that saddam's pushing his luck. men like this are in history books for stuff like this. i think the world could have learned it lesson by now.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

whoa. wake up and smell the sanctions the us imposed on iraq for the past 13 years. hurting feelings?! whatever. stand by your opinion; have some integrity fa chrissakes!
also note that history books are invariably written by the fascist- ass winners of wars.
this war, i think everyone is fucked no matter what. i mean the us didn't even vote bush into office! it was basically a beaurocratic coup.
and now ...
i think the only reasonable way to proceed would be a global broadcast of dubya and saddam chained together by one anklecuff and fighting to the death with switchblades. that would be awesome! then maybe both of them plus dick cheney (the u.s.' psychotic vice moron) would have fatal heart attax.
whew.
i wanted to talk about music.

[Yoss]

sorry i haven´t advice about the content of the link i put in my last post...

but sometimes people needs a shocking vision to realize that WAR hurts people.

Let now the CNN convert this war into a sitcom.


Byez!

Ps: Gunjack nice long track on Deafmosaic 003...

[gunjack]

which track are you talking about? dm03 was a misprint.... are they being sold?! that was not supposed to be released yet. supposed to have the press redone!!!!!!! please let me know..... did you purchase this record? download?

[c s]

well, just wait for what "the better future" in iraq will look like. you'll probably be surprised. 'special democracy' (only 10% allowed to vote) like in kuwait perhaps? total surveillance like in the us? a fascist regime like once in chile? torture and no rights at all for those simply declared 'enemy combattants' like in guantanamo? massacres like in afghanistan?

guantanamo btw is a great example of 'honour' in war - there are laws even in war, for example about the way to deal with pow's - the us managed to break even these. so they're not even 'honourable soldiers' in that sense.

and did you hear of that guy named pointdexter, his old and his new job...?

about the 'mindless soldiers' i have nothing to add - ask a behavioural psychologist about the effects of drill. ok perhaps a slight exaggeration - perhaps a small percentage keeps some brain but the majority doesn't.

you cannot enforce a law by breaking one and at the same time remain credible - unless you are charles bronson, but perhaps bush IS charles bronson?

[gunjack]

and perhaps you ARE completely oblivious......

[c s]

you obviously still can't be bothered to contribute some content to this thread. you seem to have no standpoint at all.

[MUX]

hey hey hey.. woke up, posted a bit and was out all day in the sun came back that the war had already started on the board! some wild shit.. didnt know all this was gonna break out. i suggested the minute of silence not because i want this board to be political or me CNN-induced but i pity those u will have an empty chair back home, just for the sake of saddam ignorance.

i didnt vote for bush
i didnt vote for blair
and i didnt vote for that spanish dude with the fucked up moustache

But with you liking or not these man are helping you by pushing war. the world is a fucked up place nowadays and u cant just sit their and stick your backhand to your forehead, tilt yr head back and sigh about it. people are going to die. and innocent people are goignt o die as well. but the man cnt be trusted. he's fucked up. he regime is fucked up, and certain things cant be overlooked. he wasnt helpfull, this could have been avoided if he was a Decent leader to his country. the world advances differently.iraq is two steps back. but it aint a excuse.

and in no way would i want saddam to consider putting my life at 1% risk. as person as a citizen and as a human being of this world.

Cs - i admire your opinion , but different information is different sources doesnt make me an ignorant fuck. it is as i said only an opinion.

[gunjack]

my standpoint is clear if you read and make an effort to comprehend,i support the dissarming of the current iraqi government. i support the efforts to curb chemical and biological weapons, not only in iraq but anywhere, INCLUDING my native land, the USA. I DO NOT SUPPORT THE BLANKET BOMBING OF ANY COUNTRY. i believe this situation could have been handled quietly, were it not so important for the current neo facist monopoly (US gov.) to use this conflict as a political vehicle. LIVES ARE NOTNEGOTIABLE. I respect the men and women of the armed forces, but remain opposed to all out war. i believe this is the 3rd world war. i believe the USA has come full circle and become the very embodyment of what it once stood to destroy. i believe that this conflict has many facets. too many in fact, to be so loosely generalized by the likes of you C_S


i believe you are expressing a one sided, unrealistic and ignorant point of view. my rationalisation for this belief is based on your inability to put yourself in the shoes of every single person effected by this conflict.


i have to go out now, but thanks for actually asking me my opinion on the matter.



gunny

[c s]

all i do is add points of view. in my opinion if you sum them all up there's no objective reason for a war now. it's all been said a million times: saddam is an asshole, yes. but so is bush. it's not good vs. evil - it's evil vs. evil. it's not moral against crime, it's criminals agaist criminals (see earlier posts). both are reckless and don't give a fuck about human lives if it's 'for the cause' = for their own power and prosperity. the losers are always those who have nothing to decide anyway. it was highly unlikely that iraq uses potential weapons of mass destruction (it was never proved that he has some) against another country as it would have been suicide - now he has nothing to lose & it has become much more likely - cool. the u.n. agreed to peacefully inspect iraq and now that this process was finally running the us place themselves over the whole world, over the council of nations and decide what to do. this is ridiculous. do you have a car? driving it is much more dangerous than any terrorism. the bush gouvernment successfully perverted the views of their own people. keeping people in fear and starting wars is a very old means of getting support and staying in power - there are elections in the us next year. afghanistan wasn't enough. i'm already looking forward to bush's first visit in baghdad, would be a great part of his election campaign. there's also money to be made, unfinished business by bush sr. etc. etc. there are many reasons for a war but ethics, bringing democracy and preventing danger is defintely not among them. it's just so obviuosly wrong.

[c s]

Originally posted by gunjack
i believe that this conflict has many facets. too many in fact, to be so loosely generalized by the likes of you C_S


sorry but i brought in 100% more facettes than you in this whole thread. considering the fact that we obviously actually agree i blame it on your known faible for word combat that you chose to insult me multiple times while i didn't attack you. if you'd read my posts instead of quoting them completely and adding one single impolite line below you'd noticed that i brought up many reasons for this war, not a single one. i didn't even say all americans and not even all those gi's are assholes. i mainly criticised the leaders, their fake goals and the mechanisms they use, that's it.

well, but i know you like confrontation, no? but it's a good moment for me to take a break from this thread too.

[Yoss]

the track is the A1 that looks as if you were djing!

i have it in my hand right now, Deafmosaic 003 - Hedshot - Gunjack!

available in spain right now!

[invisibleplanet]

originally posted by enigmatic
IRAQ has already broken FOURTEEN of the UN resolutions but the UN did not take action in anyway. they have allowed this situation to escalate to the point of no turning back.

let's not be biased here
the entire usa war commitee is wanted on war criminal charges, have repeatedly ignored more than 14 UN resolutions. But what the f***, they have nukes.

I am FOR war but I would have much prefered it to have had the UN backing because then it can be viewed as a "just war" but since France (also bare in mind that France are not vetoing the war because they think its wrong or so, they are only vetoing it because they too have BILLIONS to make from Iraq due to contracts they haev signed)has used its veto in the security council this will not happen.

I am against war. at all costs. and in favour of spending my taxes on a fair electoral system, hospitals ,medicine, equipment, and education.

Anti-war people keep saying war is wrong and war will not achieve anything, so I put this question to them if war is not done what else should be done since the UN has proved to be so INCOMPETENT in dealing with Iraq?[/url]

UN have not been given a chance..They now have to flee for their lives, and if u remember what happened when the UN peacekeepers fled from the Golan Heights in Palestinian Occupied Territories, u will know that UN fleeing is a bad sign that things will get very bloody.

[quote]At least with war we can be 99% sure that Saddam will not be president anymore.

No - the only thing u can be 99% sure if is that the USA will place another in his place.

At least with war we may say that the people of Iraq will be better off because they will not be ruled by a tyrant anymore, a tyrant who cares NOTHING FOR HIS OWN PEOPLE EXCEPT HIMSELF.

You can be sure that Bush the tyrant will kill many of them in one go. Is this better than starving over a number of years? I don't think so.

At least after the war no matter who gets to govern the country at least they will be BETTER THAN HAVING SADDAM in power.

U don't know that. You could be talking out of your bottom and making more sense.

Some people say ok if USA now start a war with IRAQ what about othe rmiddle eastern countries? Well for this I say why not deal with the problem in front of you now rather than letting the future consequences bother you.

What about Palestine? What about the nukes USA have near Japan?

Ok the USA helped put Saddam in power but because of that does that mean that they should not correct THEIR MISTAKE?

If they want to help the democratic free world, they should install an electoral system instead. If Musharref of Pakistan can do it, so can Saddham.

Its like saying you give a criminal a gun and this criminal shoots people and kills. Do you say that "well i gave him teh gun so i have to leave him alone to kil people" or do you say "yes, I gave him the gun but now it is time to take it way so that he doesnt get the chance to kill more people"?

One should seriously doubt the agenda behind such a person who would give a man a gun to do their dirty work, and then hangs him as a criminal.

There is no POINT at all always saying "well USA ALLOWED SADDAM TO BE IN THE POSITION" because it does not help the PEOPLE OF IRAQ!

What would help the people of Iraq, would be to let them follow their own course. To decide who they want as a leader, to choose their own currency, without outside pressures, and to eat, sleep, educate, cure, and fuck in peace, with no more interference from the New World Order that is the USA.

Its just a shame that the USA never seems to learn from their mistakes and they always seem to support corrupt regimes that eventually turn out to be an embarassment to them.

It is no shame, it is a carefully calculated military strategy, acting on behalf of corporate and policital enterprises.

I sincerely hope that this will make them think twice before they support regimes that benefit them... but I doubt it.

I doubt it too. This is just the beginning. Watch out USA, North Korea is building Nukes to welcome you to the Global Pillage of the Third World War.

I think rather than look at this objectively people (anti-war) are letting their anti-american views see the situation in a proper fashion

What a lot of tosh. No anti-war person, who also hates the US military agenda is actually against the american people. They realise, that the American People are just the same as them. Trapped by birth, in a country with a horrendous foreign policy, bent on dominating world trade and influencing cultures against the will of their people.

Yes BUSH may be a bastard

Yes BUSH may be fighting this war jsut for oil

Yes BUSH might be an asshole for not waiting for the UN

BUT

at least SOMETHING will be done and even if some people die (and NO i am not saying that this is ok) the majority will be free and be able to build a BETTER future.

doh! oh that's all right then. I can sleep safe at night knowing that evangelical fire and brimstone christians are running the world.

Think about it, before WWII started in in UK there was a petition where over 7MILLION people signed AGAINST THE WAR. What would have happened if the majority had been listened to then? Where would we be now? Had they waited and not defeated Hitler what would the world be like now?

certainly the palestinian holocaust might not be happening......u cannot compare this to Hitlers World Vision. You're being naive.

My question at the moment would be "WHY are the USA now so EAGER to do right by the IRAQ PEOPLE?" To me it seems very odd.

This is just a clever appeasement. Don't be fooled.

I just think people should see both side of the story and not let their hatred for USA power cloud theri judgement.

Do you mean me? I don't hate USA power. I abhor it. It is an abomination, a double-blind, a hypocritical media-manipulated propogandist hype.

Lets not blame the USA for EVERYTHING thats wrong in the world. They are bad but not that bad.

Since 2001, when their military moved into 42 different countries in preparation for strategic resource acquisition, I can safely say, that their influence has been more insidious than the christian missionaries in Africa, and the Conquistadors in South America.
Now I ask you to read through these links with an open mind.

"I want to say something about the effects from the huge amount of radio activity that was released into the country from the shells and missiles during the war. The radio activity came from the depleted uranium that was used to coat the missiles and shells. It was released in the form of dust after firing. The UK Atomic Energy Authority told me that if there were 50 tons of this dust left in the country it would result in 500,000 extra cancer deaths by the end of the century. The UKAEA told the government about this in 1990. It is now estimated that there are between 700 and 900 tons of this material in Iraq. The results are that Iraqi hospitals are over-flowing with children with cancer and this dust will remain active for 4,500 million years. You can now go into any hospital in Iraq and see people with the most appalling cancers and, of course, there is nothing to treat these people with. When I was in Iraq doctors told me that just ten months after the war they were reporting the appearance of birth defects that they had only previously seen in text books of examples taken from the pacific islands after the nuclear tests that took place there in the 1950s. They said that increases in hydrocephalus, cleft palate, deformed or missing limbs, webbed fingers and webbed toes had all been noted. All these symptoms can be seen in those cases of Gulf War syndrome. If governments were prepared to put proper money into funding an independent scientific survey they would see that this is really the unique nightmare of the vanquished and the victor being equally effected."

excerpt taken from a speech by Felicity Arbuthnot (http://www.stevewallis.supanet.com/iraq/voices-felicity.htm)

Felicity Arbouthnot is a free-lance journalist and a regular visitor to Iraq. Felicity was also the reasearcher for John Pilger’s powerfull documentry "Paying the Price - killing the children of Iraq" and this is the speech that was given by Felicity to "The Silent Holocaust" National conference which was hosted and sponsered by the Fire Brigade Union. in 1998

Depleted Uranium
Facts for All the World to See (http://www.iraqy.com/Uranium-Effects.htm) iraqi emigrants site

There are reports of children developing cancers at rates that doctors in the area have never seen before, with Basra Children's Hospital experiencing a death rate for children with leukaemia 10 times higher than normal (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/70029.stm)
bbc news

During the course of his investigations in Depleted Uranium, Professor Gunther was arrested by German customs whilst attempting to transport DU shell fragments and dust back into Germany for analysis. The authorities charged him with 'transporting nuclear materials across international borders'. He claims he was severely beaten whilst being held in custody for two weeks, without access to a lawyer or any form of representation, or contact with the outside world (http://www.firethistime.org/guntheressay.htm)

The US and British governments deny that Depleted Uranium from bombs dropped on Iraq is the cause of thousands of deformed children and greatly increased numbers of cancer patients in Iraq following the Gulf war in 1991. (http://www.robert-fisk.com/lies_deceit.htm)

photographs 1 (http://www.benjaminforiraq.org/contaminazioneitaly.htm) WARNING - CONTAINS HORRIFIC PICTURES _ PLEASE LOOK ONLY IF YOU ARE STRONG OF MIND AND STOMACH

exteme birth deformities (http://www.xs4all.nl/~stgvisie/VISIE/extremedeformities.html)

[theorie]

invisibleplanet, have you any suggestions for action which vibe with your undeniable facts and informed abhorrence (which i share with you)?
its useless to be a repository of knowledge when all you do is post on message boards (also guilty).

[enigmatic]

Just one thing to point it.

What makes you think that YOU are so untouchable by media? Arent the fatcs that you are so keen to inform everyone about a form of Media?

I for my OWN views just like YOU do. What makes you think that I succumb to media views? Ah yes I must remember anyone for war or has is able to view both sides of the coin most be stupid somehow.


I DO NOT AGREE WITH YOUR ANTI WAR VIEWS. I am entitled to this right.

That does not make you any better than I or anybody else.

That does not mean that I am IGNORANT.

It just means that I HAVE A DIFFERENT OPINION FROM YOU.


You dont want war no matter what.

I can see the reasons for war and I can also see the reasons why people do not want war.

So lets leave it at that.

[enigmatic]

Originally posted by theorie
its useless to be a repository of knowledge when all you do is post on message boards (also guilty).

This is a question that I am curious about also :)

[KaOz]

fuck, the war runs!!!!!!!!

[deccard]

@enigmatic/mux: sounds like u are victims of the us propaganda. former cia members said in interviews that us government interpreted cia reports wrong so they fit in their propaganda scheme.
look how often the us accused saddam for something which in the end couldn´t be proved. why didn´t the us do something as saddam really killed so many people of his own with gas???

sorry to say that but what happened before 9-11 in the iraq seems like never happened for some people.

fact was that saddam could have been stopped at gulf war I.
the us general (schwarzrübe) said after the war in an interview they should have gone on with the war and don´t stop.
fact is that the us helped saddam to block a riot against him direct after the first gulf war (why?!?!). the cia knew about 2 riots against saddam and they said they wanted to help but dropped it twice since saddam regency.

so fact is that it´s the us-fault ( a big part) that saddam is still there!!!!!
what people are worse? people like saddam or people like the us government who let people like saddam go on and on as long they have opportunities through that.
same shit with bin laden. trained by cia to defeat the ussr.

in the end we should invade the us before we get invaded by them cause they think we´re evil.
sounds dumb huh? freedom fries sound dumb too.

why the hell the us government doesn´t sign the contract against war crime for international court???
i heard the only other two countries were lybia and afghanistan (don´t know for sure but you get the picture)

under all these circumstances a war shouldn´t be held by the us anymore. they don´t are the saviors of us all. they always acted to get more power.
if you are not with us, you are against us....what a crap.
the un should decide when and how.

[MUX]

i aint no victim of nothing except myself and my rizla

[s0m3:b1rd]

hehehehe.

did i just hear the news in the background correctly? has the war actually started?

[tsr_tomas]

http://www.lyngsat.com/livetv/United-States.shtml
check the Blomberg channel´s. they are good updated on the latest news about the situation in irak etc etc....

just a tip !

[deccard]

Originally posted by MUX
i aint no victim of nothing except myself and my rizla

want some freedom fries?

[gunjack]

the armageddon ultimatum clock at the bottom of my tv screen makes this whole war seem like a bad jerry bruckhiemer film.

[s0m3:b1rd]

Originally posted by tsr_tomas
http://www.lyngsat.com/livetv/United-States.shtml
check the Blomberg channel´s. they are good updated on the latest news about the situation in irak etc etc....

just a tip !

cheers love but i hate bloomberg. went out with some bloke who worked there and they exploited him big time.

[phil]

yipee kay yay mother fucker

[gunjack]

http://koti.mbnet.fi/~latuman/forum/noone.jpg

[tsr_tomas]

s0m3:b1rd:
aight, wasn´t aware of that... but still. they given me the information that i´m looking for so far.
so, what channel do you watch ?

[s0m3:b1rd]

erm, i don't. i try to avoid news generally apart from the channel 4 news which i watch every nite avidly at 7. for some reason i just kinda trust john snow

[maudular]

I'm not sure the images on Tv can be taken seriously... unless it's Blue Planet on...

[s0m3:b1rd]

oops, its just occured to me that you're from sweden and probably haven't got a clue who john snow is.

[maudular]

I haven't got a clue neither... so, oiseau who is John Snow ?

[s0m3:b1rd]

he's a news bloke (erm, obviosly). he's got white hair and is somehow endearing in that you think it'd be pretty good if he was your dad.

or maybe i'm just a mentalist.

does anyone else get that feeling about john snow?

[tsr_tomas]

s0m3:b1rd: hahaha, you´re so right... i don´t know Jack about that guy =)

[gunjack]

Originally posted by tsr_tomas
s0m3:b1rd: hahaha, you´re so right... i don´t know Jack about that guy =)
http://koti.mbnet.fi/~latuman/forum/lol.jpg

[s0m3:b1rd]

oh come on, someone must know about, and strangely like, john snow???

[gunjack]

Originally posted by s0m3:b1rd
hello. i'm new here.
i'm just off to USAB fairford to protest as the b52s take off this arvo.
anyone got a msg they want me to give em?
or any good chants?


http://koti.mbnet.fi/~latuman/forum/banme.jpg

[s0m3:b1rd]

please explain.

[MUX]

'posh spice takes it up the arse'

[s0m3:b1rd]

hehehehehe.
thx but that doesn't really help!

[invisibleplanet]

originally by deccardwant some freedom fries?

and would u like nice comfort shake to go with those, honey ?:illin:


and theorie - i am thinking on what you said, but the only things i can think of thus far, are quite illegal.

and BOYZ

can u quite with the crass statements for at least ONE page?

less than 7 minutes to go before T-time

[invisibleplanet]

is this the first televised war in the history of man?

LEFHANDLOU, what's the tv coverage in the states like, right now?

[s0m3:b1rd]

nah, the first gulf war was too. have you read 'the gulf war did not take place' by baudrillard? good stuff.

[s0m3:b1rd]

www.libarts.ucok.edu/english/faculty/ stein/vietnam/notes/gulfwar.htm

[maudular]

the first gulf war on tv... that was green screen with green dots... infrared style... war-live !! in France, they put a little logo "gulf war" on TV ...

[invisibleplanet]

ok- well, the 'allies' are going in to get saddham and his supporters.
i hope they get him by the end of the day :|

[theorie]

the vietnam war was the first with tv news correspondents.

i would call it the zenith of earnest tv journalism, before the days of huge media conglomerates with commercial interests controlling the distribution of info (right?at least there were more than 3).

this remote view of the horrors of war may have increased u.s. mass consciousness such that many more people than ever before were becoming very disillusioned with the fucking lying-ass government.
among other contributing factors.

but then it felt like no one paid attention to the gulf war...

[theorie]

by "gulf war" i mean the desert storm one in 1989. sorry.

[gunjack]

i am in villalba spain with no sattelite tv and the only thing i can see on spanish local tv is a picture of early morning city with cars going by..........

[phil]

s0m3:b1rd i have read that book, really amazing stuff. sometimes i think that Industrial light and magic were involved in special effects.

[mr franks]

Originally posted by s0m3:b1rd
oh come on, someone must know about, and strangely like, john snow???

... i do find him strangly comforting, better than Hew Edwards,. he has strange ties tho.

[MUX]

i think this war will be a quickie
in /out /wipe

[c s]

yeah more kills/hour will make it look more humane.

[gunjack]

http://www.student.smsu.edu/s/san232s/hardfunnypics/domoteachforamerica-scotty707.jpg

[c s]

i only know one of these guys.

[gunjack]

thats domo kun.

[MUX]

hehehe but all the kittens are dead now!

[gunjack]

http://www.student.smsu.edu/s/san232s/hardfunnypics/evertimeewok.jpg

[gunjack]

oops wrong thread

[MUX]

HAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHA
that ones great..

[gunjack]

http://www.fnord.net/~phollmer/war.txt

[marcel]

Originally posted by gunjack
http://www.fnord.net/~phollmer/war.txt
jesus. great text!

[gunjack]

i found it an interesting slant on the situation as well, but some points dont match up...............