Bass

[deccard]

i´m interested what softsynths you use for ur killabasslines(f.e. some si begg-esque).
the pre-fm7 time i used tc mercury but now fm7 and some mercury on top or some linplug roagine(sounds better than it looks).

[c s]

what is tc mercury ? hmm never heard of it and i was almost starting to think i was competent. :p

FM 7 rules !

[CV]

no softsynth can give you real bass

you need analogue

Darn etc... huge basses

Sequential Circuits Pro-one

[deccard]

don´t spoil it cristian :)
what about si begg..he produces everything in da computer i think...you too cristian..so don´t come up with that analogue stuff...

@c s: mercury is cool monophonic synth...check it out for some bass action

[c s]

the 'darn' bass is for sure an outstanding bass milestone !! and yes, i wouldn't know how to replicate it with my programmes...

well i can't really make competent statements as i don't have any analogue gear at all to compare. although i once read even some vintage expert failed to tell which one was the real prophet and which one was the emulation - maybe the software company gave generous gifts to help them writing this... lol

how about a 'bass show', everybody attach a bass and compare the results. i might go and borrow a vintage analogue machine from a friend.

hmm i was never known as a bass expert, i know that...

[c s]

hey deccy, maybe you have access to both methods of synthesis ?

[deccard]

deccy? man if i come to hamburg you better hide yourself in a bassbin hehe..
what you mean with access to both? you don´t have to mumble! i won´t bite....yet


btw...what the hell is a "darn bass" ??

[c s]

ah lacking insider knowledge... ?FATAL ERROR.

[emef]

sonic syndicate.....junglist is a pretty evil bass vsti

maybe this is heresy but i have always preferred digital to analogue
now i can do everything inside the computer, i am very happy.

[stu pitaus]

deccy, muhahahaha, deccy. aww how cute. you and c s have little play names. um, darn bass is like, well, you hear it and you think to yourself, darn. rather than saying something along the lines of... well... poop. darn bass is better than poop bass but not quite as good as sex bass. hot karl bass is right up there too... mmmm hot karl.

[deccard]

darn bass is better than poop bass
thx stu-beard :D

[actionjetzon]

http://www.synthmuseum.com/roland/rolsh901.jpg

i mostly use my Roland SH09 for the more deep, and not so aggressive basses...it´s very cool but not so spectacularly

[JE:5]

Originally posted by emef
sonic syndicate.....junglist is a pretty evil bass vsti



Yep, I got the latest version a few weeks ago and it is pretty awesome. :)

[CV]

what about si begg..he produces everything in da computer i think...you too cristian..

Si always was Mr Analogue... he has an EMS like me and used to have two Pro 1s and MC202 TR606 - the lot&&&

He helped me learn all about CV and GATE back when we made inevitech together;;;

Now I know he uses an imac to edit alot , but he is still an analogue nuttah fo sure

as for me - I`m always trying to get out of the machine - its like getting out of your head

[stu pitaus]

or trying to sign your name with someone elses hand

[deccard]

shuddap stu...grown ups talkin now hehe

[stu pitaus]

! that was a mature comment... i wuz paintin yall a mental picture. heres another painting... kiss my fantastic arse with someone elses lips.

[dick head]

interesting. so mr vogel, are you saying that using REAL analogue embues your bass noises with a certain je ne sais quoi? the fabled warmth. what is this mysterious warmth? that comforting womblike quality, fetal memories of mama's heartbeat.

i can hear it. doof doof.

i must confess i have trouble making it with virtual analog. but as c s says, it has been reported that one cannot tell apart eg virtual pro one and real pro one when a/b-ing them. is this a sales pitch ?

yet, since we digitise everything anyway when it's being edited, what's the difference? if you can digitally sample "warmth" without losing it, then surely you ought to be able to build a mathematical model which simulates the analog process, and thus also creates warmth.

on the other hand, to use an "analog-y" (hahaha) - cgi in films often tries to recreate the analog world using digits, and despite huge advances in tech, it is usually intuitively obvious what is 'real' and what is not.

[deccard]

you answering your own questions dick head...:D
ok but don´t forget there where always artists who were able
to paint photorealistic pictures...so where´s da bass?

[stu pitaus]

what are you comparing them on/with? who is comparing them? comparing sensory things is tricky. how boring this can get.. it all comes down to controlled environments and sensory fatigue and familiarization of what you are comparing. and as far as the makin, lets say, a moog, a 1 and a 0 and gettin the same thing.. i completely disagree, unless you take that moog engine and put it in with your 1 and 0. sometimes all the difference in the world is the subtleties, and to understand the subtleties, you got to be familiar. take a 34' ford... now put a 4 cylinder in it. hmph aint the same... looks like a 34...nah, i say put a large chevy block in instead, chop the top while your at it.

and its all preference. and it matters what drives it. and whos driving. and who cares.

[dick head]

yes i know.

but rereading vogel's post, i surmise it's the fun factor. i went all digital recently, and i have to say i really miss playing with the nobs on my old pro one. but lack of space, quite apart from the fact that it is broken, dictates i have to get into the pc.

anyway, i'm really into using samples, making kick drums and bass noises out of farts etc, herbert-style. there is no reason not to do this stuff entirely in a pc now.

[dick head]

well the specific pro one thing i was referring to, i don't have the link, but it was john bowen who designed the real pro one, he simply had a real pro one on one channel and the virtual one on the other and compared their sounds with the same knob settings. was unable to tell which was which. however, it is his company which made the virtual pro one so believe the hype or not, it's up to you.

[JE:5]

I'm not really bothered as long as it sounds good. ;)

[dick head]

indeed, why be anal retentive about it if it rawks?

i just like discussing the filosofy of these matters cos i'm a frustrated inty leck chewal.

[emef]

Originally posted by dick head
yes i know.

but rereading vogel's post, i surmise it's the fun factor. i went all digital recently, and i have to say i really miss playing with the nobs on my old pro one. but lack of space, quite apart from the fact that it is broken, dictates i have to get into the pc.



if knobs are what you are after, you should try the evolution mk249c
controller keyboard.
12 rotary controllers
pitchbend, mod wheel and volume slider all sending cc
and a four octave keyboard

all for £149 inc vat BARGAIN!!!!!!

[JE:5]

Also the Drum Station comes in handy as a midi controller, 20+controllers! (It's all mines good for at the minute because I haven't got a mixing desk.) :(

[nothinghere]

Analogy- I like to use my;
tb-303, Pro One, mc-202, sh-101, but what takes the cake is a little thing called the microcon http://www.drummachine.com/newpages/microcon.html
Its what you would call PHAT.

I have also been liking the synth on reason, its pretty fun and can get some serious tones out of it.

I also like to sample my tr-808, my friend did some mods to it where you can adjust the decay of the bass so it never ends. so I can get some pretty strong bass

[JE:5]

Actually, make that nearly 40.

[Spewis]

I've been using Waves Maxx Bass plug-in on soft synth basslines recently and ive been pretty pleased with the fatness. no softsynth can give you real bass

[@m.]

I think I'm leaning more on the hardware for sick bass...my rinky-dink little Korg ER-1 can do a bit of damage, but the next item to squeeze the blood out of my pocketbook will be an Access Virus.
Oooooh..... AAhhhhh......
http://www.keyboardmag.com/demos/accessvirus/accessvirus1.jpg
I know of a few that swear by them...
I will check out this Maxx Bass plug in you speak of though.

[anarchosyn]

only analogue can give you real bass? pthfffp!, I say--pthfffffp!
If digital couldn't recreate dope bass, then we would never hear good bass on recordings due to the heavy amount of digitization that occurs when trax are placed on disc. My pro-1 sounds deep, but if I sample it into my computer, it still sounds deep.. so my computer has the ability to recreate that sound (which logically entails that it should be able to create that sound, given the proper software). Maybe the current market of softsynths suck, but that doesn't mean the medium can't do all we care and hear. Of course, it all depends on what kind of output device you have for audio. If your soundcard sucks, then your sound sucks (unless you avoid those outs and do EVERYTHING, including the final burn to CD, without crossing them).

just my $.98762


(v/jek)

[dick head]

i don't think it logically follows that if you can sample something digitally then you can simulate it digitally. sampling and virtual synthesis are both processes in the digital domain, but they are very different processes.

to continue my film analogy, nowadays you can digitally film live action and it is indistinguishable from analog film when projected. you can think of digital filming as 2-dimensional digital sampling. however, cgi (the 'synthesis' of 2 dimensional digital samples) is still intuitively noticeable as not 'real'. perhaps because perfect straight lines, 1s and 0s do not exist in the real (analog)world.

another illustration of my point - has anyone created a mathematical model that sounds like a real trumpet or violin? no. but a sample - one can't distinguish it from the real thing.

[anarchosyn]

Dick,

reread what I posted. I didn't say I could download fm7 and make a trumpet sound, but that sound IS getting turned into 1s and 0s so it is THEORETICALLY possible to recreate it, via 1s and 0s.
Now, your analogies are interesting, but verging on inappropriate due to the fact the systems you are speaking of are much more complex than analogue sine bass (which SHOULD sound like the FM7 sine, but--due to fluxuations and artifacts introduced in the analogue domain--it doesn't ).

[dick head]

hmmmmmmmmmmmm.

i think i've had enough filosofy for this month, i sound like a twat.

[Ruben A]

technically yes.... that´s what Roland has done the last 15 years... producing synths that comes with "naturel" sounds; trumpet, violin, organ... blabla..bla... some samples, others regenerated sounds... digitally! close to the real thing?!
But NOT!




harhahrhahrhhr

[mr_chombee]

I am on the analogue side =)
theoretically it might be possible to reproduce the warmth of an analog synth, but there will ever be a difference. of course you can also produce fat & ass kickin' basses with digital synths or even with computer plugins, but you can't copy an analog synth. however, both is interesting. did you ever got your hands on the mighty minimoog? this machine will show you the difference, for sure! =)

the formula is simple: analog=analog & digital=digital. the warmth of an analog oscillator is a physical phenomenon. nothing else...

a lot of music gear manufacturers tried to copy analogue stuff. why? it's like if you try to let a guitar sound like a trumpet.

hey freaks! does anybody of you have 35.000 EUR in your pocket? check that: http://cgi.ebay.de/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1520627544
I totally fall in love with that. could you buy that for me, please??? :D

[roberta_hood]

Originally posted by mr_chombee

I totally fall in love with that. could you buy that for me, please??? :D

hey mr_chombee, no problem i will make your dream come true...
...at the moment, the company where i work give me all what i want, so what...
...what are 35 000 Euro, yet?! :)

[Ruben A]

...it´s already sold!


... I bought it yesterday...(in my mind)...




DAMN! It looks GOOD!! Nearly as good as the System 700...

SYSTEM700 (http://www.vintagesynth.org/roland/images/roland_system700.jpg)

[mr_chombee]

thanks roberta! you know the delivery adress, right? =)

btw, did you noticed that oskar sala (that trautonium guy) died 2 weeks ago? R.I.P., freak!

[roberta_hood]

yes, oskar sala is died in the age of 94 years. i have read or seen something about him, first a short while ago, randomly. and there i thoughts, from where i know this name.

he has with his further development of friedrich trautweins trautonium, oskar sala developed the several voices mixture trautonium, alfred hitchkoks film the birds (die voegel) "vertont". i don't know the word in english...
...vertont?!
aehm, he makes the sounds, noise of the birds for the film...

@mr_chombee
yeees, i know the delivery adress!
and while the company where i work, pay my relocation, there is no problem to deliver you the instrument, too...
...the van with which i move is big enough, there will be a place in it for it. :D

[anarchosyn]

Moogs are nice, but I'm more of a buchla sorta guy.. regardless, new modulars are FAR superior to the older ones simply because they will operate without needing replacement parts (for now_) and those parts are readily available (for now). Don't get me wrong, nothing sounds like a moog, buchla or synthi other than a moog, buchla or synthi .... ... but for 35.000 I'd pick up a fenix, modcan, (new) serge, wiard or motm modular .

[roberta_hood]

something to listen from "this thing"...

[mr_chombee]

hehe...alfred hitchKOKS lol
tss, tss, tss...

@anarchosyn
sure, but it looks incredible nice. I'd like to go to bed with it.
sex with tha machines...

[anarchosyn]

OoOoh yeah! I hear ya.. After following that link my keyboard definitely got a bit stickier =)..

[deccard]

i know a cure for that...it´s called girlfriend:)

[anarchosyn]

nahh.. granted, twisting my girlfriends knobs does make painfully loud noises, but getting the timbrel elemants *just* right is a bit difficult. I won't even make the patch cord jokes ... too easy ;).

[mr_chombee]

hehe...sure...but a girlfried has only 2 knobs lol
ooops...sorry...


anyway...back to the topic:

a couple months ago I've read a very interesting interview with stefan betke (pole) in german keyboards mag. as you might know, betke worked for dubplates'n'mastering, so they were discussing about the different sound of cd's and vinyl. the keyboards guy said, that it's usually not possible to detect a difference with a spectrum analyzer or stuff like that on a reference system (sorry my english is quite limited in that point...hope you know what I mean). btw, betke replied: yes, that's true, but the reason why vinyl sounds different and more fat than cd's is, that the stylus/needle produces various sub-frequencies. I think that's very interesting. an analog synth's oscillator might do the same. a couple years ago I had a korg MS20. if a track was unfinished, I always wrote the settings to a sheet of paper, believing that I can reproduce the sound, but it NEVER matched it 100%. machines live. if the weather is bad, they sound different than if there's sunshine outside =)

[mr_chombee]

ooops...anarchosyn has been faster than me, reg. the knobs =)

SYNC

[Vlendi]

apart from the Teisco/Kawai 100f as analogue, i found that the (cycling74)
Pluggo Synth has monstrous bass, and great filter modulation that make it sound a bit like the Teisco one or even the OSCAR.(hheh)
calm down now, darn members

[deccard]

pc/mac: fm7/mercury/roagine/junglist/pluggo synth
is that all??? (i don´t count the analogues, cause they are harder to get etc....)

[Will O The Wisp]

#Brake#
Don't forget about itwontbelong saw - alike bass This's DADDY