the so called 3/4 techno

[professor]

hello i want improve my knowledge about this style of techno
i have only heard some tracks of olgan + joseph
i can´t belive that that he is the only artist who produces
such music.
but what makes this 3/4 style unique. i think it sounds chopped off.
can you clear me up?

[arar]

Ive got there of there records, but I dont think they're by any means unique..having read your post I will go away and listen to them again however...watch this space!

[deccard]

what do you mean with 3/4 techno?
like the latest akufen?

[Sheridan]

the stuff that dosier (i think thats his name) does on
the olga & josef releases is actually mostly 2/4 techno.
mike parker does a lot of stuff in 3/4. I like it very much
just because it gets away from the straight 4 to the floor
stuff which can be rather monotonous. but if you want to
know what it is, it's just the time signature for the beat.
having 2 or 3 beats per bar as opposed to 4.
1 and 2 and 1 and 2 ....
oliver ho has been doing 2/4 for ages. as well as max duley
hardcell, diego, inigo kennedy, and a bunch of other people.

[mrhospital]

Jeepers, this reminds of an old force-inc release called 'Cobalt tracks' or something, does anyone remember that.

[mrhospital]

Oops, sorry it was Kobol Tracks on Djax.

[lina]

3/4 sounds like dancehall style?

dum dum dum ...
da da da ...

erm sorry

[deccard]

i still don´t get what ya mean.
like
one da da two da da three da da four da da one da da....(bd 4/4)
the german word is triole/triolisch but dunno the engl. expression
or
one and two and three and one and two....

[nothinghere]

3/4 like a waltz, all waltzs are in 3/4

Music is written in measures 3/4, 4/4, 2/4 are all time signitures designating how many beats there are per measure. So 3/4 has 3 beats per measure, 4/4 has four and so on.

[deccard]

don´t tell me that nothinghere. i had drumcourses for 6 years.
but i don´t heard any 3/4 techno so i just wanted to clear things up before there is some sort of misunderstanding.
a lot people used a 3/4 sequence over a 4/4 beat.

[nothinghere]

sorry, was just trying to clarify mate:]

[nothinghere]

I think some vanetian snares stuff in 3/4

[deccard]

np.
but i still don´t know if the professor means a 3/4 if he sais 3/4.
cause it can be as monotone as everything else too. mh.

[nothinghere]

Ahh, I understand your questioning now. I assumed he meant 3/4 as in a waltz, but it could be like you said 4/4 with a 3/4 sequence

[deccard]

haha yeah talkin ´bout music. he should upload a little sippet as example.

[V Knid esq]

quite a few old acid tracks use a 3/4 acid line over a 4/4 beat eg 808 State 'Flow Coma'

[Sheridan]

if you want to hear a really simple 3/4 line check out
mike parkers "copper variations". it has a straight 3/4
drum line without a 4/4 behind it...
boom, boom, boom-boom, boom, boom, boom-boom.
it aslo has a remix by max duley that is also 3/4.

[Ruben A]

ahhh... a lot of detroit-tunes has this unique tema running in 3/4 over the 4/4 beat!

[wheezer]

hmmm kobol tracks by thomas p. heckmann? that's not 3/4 is it?

[mrhospital]

Possibly not 3/4 however I remember one having a phrase that didn't the follow the normal 4/4. I haven't heard it for a while because it's sitting in Margate, in a loft gathering dust.

[c s]

coincidentally i'm currently doing a 6/4 track and thought this is an original idea.

[Dialect]

3/4 4/4 2/4 time signatures as discussed here can be very confusing!

Because its comonly described as beats per bar. However this is miss leading because what it really means is there are four quarter notes per bar. the Bass drum does not nessarly apear four time in a single bar although the timing might be 4/4. It is a discription of the measurement of time not literal all of the time.

I have had the same discusion concerning people describing techno as 4/4 and electro as none 4/4 when what they really mean is that techno is mostly four to the floor(the description of a BD landing on the beat 4 times per bar). where as most electro is also 4/4 (time sig) but the Bass Drum is often synctopated - ie landing on and off the beat and maybe only 2 or 3 times per bar.

time signatures can get more confusing when you start uping the numbers say 6/8 or somthing like that. then it means a totally different thing altogether. This is a compound time signature.

[Dialect]

C_S's 6/4 time sig, thats allso a compound time signature. It is a Compound Duple.

there are two dotted minim's(half note) per bar. which is divided into three equal note's(or rests). Each beat, or division of a bar is equal to a dotted note.

So in effect if he placed a 909 BD on the beat. he would get two 909 BD beats to the bar. His riff, acid line or whatever, would be playing with 6 notes in one bar.


...confused?

[c s]

i never really understood how you determine (by listening) if a piece of music is for example 3/4 or 6/4 or 6/8. how do you know how the composer notated it ? it would fit in all 3 patterns - or not ?

anyway i set the measure to 6/4 in my sequencer, so it is 6/4. it's nothing but a regular 4/4 techno track with "2/4 overhead". it doesn't get real avantgarde until i switch to 7/8 or 9/8 or 5/4. 8-()

[c s]

yes i am confused. especially because i hardly know the german expressions let alone the english ones. of course i also use a lot of programs in english language but i usually don't deal much with signatures.

[Dialect]

this is because most people make a judgment about the timing of a tune by listening to the BD. So for instance me description of your 6/4 signature would be thought of as a regular 4/4 sig but with triplets. However what prob would be the case is in your sequencer you have put 6/4 but you have actualy programmed a 4/4 tune.

I dont think a judgement can always be acurate by listening. its more of a guide for players.

I'm sure that many 4/4 tunes are actually not 4/4 at all, or are a mixture of different signatures depending on how you choose to divide it.

signatures are to do with how music is divided not where the bass drum falls. But often the beat is used as an easy referance, a comon point to discuss the music.

for instance if you have a very minimal techno tune. are there 4 beats in one bar or are there in fact just 2.

[jamyna]

it's all to do with where you feel the "one".

[Dialect]

so my point is, it dosnt matter how clever you think the signature is. if the bass drum and snare can be mixed into any other dance track then it isnt that avant-garde at all. you might as well call it 4/4 what ever your sequencer was set on, or when ever you decide to have a change in the music, end of bar = end of rif, or end of two bars = end of rif, 4 of these then end of section whatever. sometimes what is deemed a clever signature is nothing more than synctapation or triplets. Still 4/4

Listen to many jungle tracks. whats the signature there then? its 4/4 with 32nd divisions instead of a comon 16th note devision. Or is it?

With my own stuff I'm currently working on some strange techno that plays around with synctopation and divisions. Its still 4/4 but I bet people will still get confused and call it something different, especaily when they find the bass drum dosnt always land ON THE BEAT. so because they have made a judgment on what signature's are, and bassed this around the beat(not their fault). they will instantly think its not a 4/4 track but something else all together, maybe try and work it and be clever - but be wrong.

[professor]

Originally posted by nothinghere


Music is written in measures 3/4, 4/4, 2/4 are all time signitures designating how many beats there are per measure. So 3/4 has 3 beats per measure, 4/4 has four and so on.

how stupid do you think i am? nothinghere

i know that it has 3 beats per measure.
i asked for it´s unique aspect!

thanks for your information

[Daefekt]

What about 15+2/3, personally this one is my favorite. I don't use it much because I like a simple 4/4 and put all of the complexities into the melody and dynamics. But this one has a unique rythim to it 1, 2, 3, 4, 5; 1, 2, 3, 4, 5; 1, 2, 3, 4, 5; 1, 2; I'll catch myself in class a lot tapping tunes of it on my desk.

[lina]

it´s amazing to be in an indian classical concert since you´ll find measures like 16/8 there and while you have no clue what happens the whole audience goes aaaah! because the tabla and sitar met at one beat after improvising for 16/8...different conditioning! different feel....

[Sheridan]

I always thought that 4/4 was when the changes occured
on the 4, 8, or 16th beats. example at the end of the
first bar, the second bar, or the 4th bar (the 1st measure)./\
if that is the case then almost all techno falls that way,
except for the advent (those damn hi hats).
I am wondering then, what technically is 8/4?
I read an interview with Max Duley and he was talking aboutr
how he liked to play techno that was more based on 2/4,
3/4, and 8/4.

[Dialect]

Yes sheridan you are close. Its kinda what I belieaved for years. However I bought a book to make it clearer to me. After having arguments with my Girl - who is classicly trained.

Quoting from my book "Composing - A Students Guide"

The top figure of a time signature
The top figure of a time signature may tell you how many beats there are in a bar, but there is a difference between a 'simple time signature' and a 'compound time signature'. In simple time, the top figure (such as 2,3,4,5,7, and so on) tells you the number of beats per bar. In compound time, the top figure (6,9 or 12), if divided by three, will give you the number of beats per bar. For example, an upper figure of 9 in compound time tells you that there are three beats per bar.

The lower figure of a time signature
The lower figure will be 2,3,8,16 (or, more rarely, 1,32 or 64) and is an indication of the type of beat. It tells what preportion of a semibreve is used for each division. Below is a chart to explain the meaning of the lower figure of a time signature.

Lower figure---------type of beat-----note name
1----------------------semibreve-------whole note
2---------------------minum-----------half note
4---------------------crotchet---------quarter note
8---------------------quaver----------eighth note
16--------------------semiquaver------sixteenth note
32-----------------demisemiquaver---thirty-second note


-------------
the chart from the book also had the proper writen notes, but I dont think our fonts can desplay a quaver as it should be. anyway...


so 8/4 is technically 8 quarter note beats per bar. er I've been trying to rationalize this. sounds imposible, well it is imposible. You can not get 8 quarters out of one whole. I'll let you make your own minds up on that, but I reckon that all he means is he likes 4/4 techno with patterns, melodies that play over two bars.

[Dialect]

so what then is 3/4

i know you are now confused, because you are trying to apply logic. how does three quarter notes make one whole, surely thats three third notes i hear you ask?

well logicly yes, but what is really ment is three crotchets, a crotchet is a quarter note, this is its name because in comon time sig, 4/4 it would be a 'quarter note'

So 3/4 is three beats to the bar, or three crotchets to a bar, or six quavers in a bar.

---------

on another note, some early electro was writen in 3/4, just thought you would like to know that, dont ask me to name tunes though.

seeya

[Sheridan]

here is an interesting chart I have from a book called the rhythm book by steve savage.

/= primary accent
-= secondary accent
U= unaccented

Time Signature Meter

2/2, 2/4, 2/8 (simple duple) / U
***************************** 1 2

3/2, 3/4, 3/8 (simple triple) / U U
***************************** 1 2 3

4/2, 4/4, 4/8 (simple quadruple) / U - U
***************************** 1 2 3 4

6/2, 6/4, 6/8 (compound duple) / U U - U U
***************************** 1 2 3 4 5 6

9/2, 9/4, 9/8 (compound triple) / U U - U U - U U
***************************** 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

12/2, 12/4, 12/8 (compound quad) / U U - U U - U U - U U
***************************** 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12

within the whole discussion of time signatures that I never have been able to grasp
is the whole, quarter, 16th, 32nd note scheme. I guess I look at a beat as a beat and
not a note. how is a beat a 32nd note. I guess I need to get back and re-read my book.

( I don't know why the numbers under the beats don't line up but I am tired of re-editing it.)