LETS: Local Exchange and Trading Scheme [Archive]

invisibleplanet

23rd February 2003, 09:46

I wondered if anyone has, or is a member of a scheme called the
Local Exchange and Trading Scheme in their area, and if it's a scheme which is peculiar to Britain.

In a nutshell, "LETS (Local Exchange Trading Schemes) are about local trading (without the need for money or credit), using human capital. LETS are open to all, and all kinds of skills are both valued and needed. They are grassroots schemes and need no specialist skills to operate.

A group of local people get together, and compile a directory of skills & goods that they have to offer and need. This directory is then distributed amongst members and they exchange skills & goods using a local currency, usually named after a local feature - "Palms" in Falmouth, "Carts" in Redruth, "Starlets" in St.Austell, "Shells" in St.Ives, "Creds" in Crediton, "Bobbins" in Manchester etc..

The currency is information only and has no value in itself. No interest is charged or credited, and there is no stigma about going into debit, as debit represents a future commitment to offer skills to another member, rather than a financial penalty imposed by a third party.

Unlike barter you do not have to trade 1 to 1 (e.g - one may do computer work for several members, and get lifts, food, haircuts etc. from others). If you enjoy what you do, whether it is your job or a hobby, someone else on the group will probably benefit from it."

I think there is an established scheme already in Brighton, and we are thinking of beginning such a scheme in our city of Wakefield, to bring our underground community together.

What do u think of such a scheme?
Are any of you already participating in LETs?

zombie ritual

23rd February 2003, 10:32

Yeah, this system has been around for a while. The idea came from a Swiss citizen called Friedrich Gesell (or something like that) in the 19th century and was used occasionally, especially during the economic crisis in the early 1930ies. Nobody really knows why it got forgotten after WW II. Critics argue it can't replace monetary economics because one cannot finance bigger projects using LETS. Well, it hasn't been tried yet.

wheezer

23rd February 2003, 13:38

well these types of deals are made all the time between friends, while with the "outside world" one needs cash money...

grobelaar

23rd February 2003, 15:46

They pioneered a scheme like this in the Manor Top council estate in Sheffield. At the time the estate was probably one of the poorest areas in the country - it was just after the closing down of the all the pits and the last of the steelworks, unemployment was at crippling rates - the council which was following an extreme leftwing policies was all but bankrupt. However, there was plenty of skills, and plenty of time, so people began to trade their skills and services. Someone's fridge would breakdown then someone would repair it and the family might pay them in other services that they had, or many on the estate had began growing fruit and veg in their back gardens to this was also a good thing to swap for services.

I think schemes like this meet with considerable disapproval by government (maybe not openly), as it operates outside the economic and taxation system. DIY culture is bad for governments, as it organises and solidifies group and communities and gives them a voice and power and ultimately encourages devolution.

Far better to promote the illusion of individualistic freedom that lives the individual free in theory, but powerless in reality...

Of course I think its a great idea, where I live, my neighbours won't even answer their door unless someone rings them up first - not much chance of a community with that sort of attitude...

baba

24th February 2003, 01:03

yes i have heard of it, I co-ordinated the LETS scheme for Kemptown - an area of Brighton in 1999/2000 - before moving to bristol. i remember so clearly staying up all night compiling and printing catalogues of requests and offers.

It is a great idea but it does work best in middle-class community centred areas which isn't really its purpose. My task was really to set it up and running in Whitehawk - a large council estate on the outskirts of brighton. There was a strong community vibe amongst the members who visited the local social centre and we managed to sort out a great baby-sitting scheme -so single mothers got to meet and have time off. So it does work on a certain level.

I have no idea how its getting on now or who is running it - must get in touch with them and find out... Any brightonians part of the scheme?

jess-ssej

24th February 2003, 18:57

It's amazing that this concept has actually been realized over your way....that is completely unheard of here...especially in the midwest......or at least it is only a mythical relic from the 1960's that no one in their right mind would even attempt now. My course at university was sociology so this is interesting to me...do you know of any website or publication that has more info...?

...ahhh yes america sux.

pille'ocheoni

24th February 2003, 19:10

i agree this is a cool idea. but how do i implement it with you guys?

invisibleplanet

24th February 2003, 20:33

jess- I am going to set one up in our area (we don't have one locally) I will give links to try to keep u and myself informed of all the information i gather which will be needed to implement such a scheme.

carbonizedeyesockets

24th February 2003, 21:12

me an the missis we re actually thinking of doing this in brighton. we have been doing it regarding our allotment mostly just swapping seeds and helping others with manual work here and there.
i do a lot of work for friends at cost (i am an electrician) and in turn they sort me out in what ever ways they can.. thanks for bringing this up IP as i'd forgat about it!
Also i think more people should get an allotment and grow their own food. I spent about £40 on seeds and tubers (all organic too) and these should last us a couple of years. We also swapped some of our seeds for stuff we didnt have and also weird stuff we'd never heard of! £25 quid a year for the allotment too, so over the year we saved so much cash.
Any Brightonians need an electrician, plasterer or seamstreess???

baba

24th February 2003, 22:40

http://www.brighton.co.uk/commune/brights.htm

Carbon - this link is for 'brights' -Brighton LETS scheme - you can find out more probably by going into Infinity Foods on North Rd in the Laines.

invisibleplanet

25th February 2003, 01:04

I'm really pleased about that, Carbonised :)

invisibleplanet

25th February 2003, 01:10

i gotta sleep now...will write more tomorrow if i have time!!!
Allotments...i had one before i moved here to the big bad city....i moved my asparagus bed, and it hated me for it and promptly died when away from the salty air, but i think i could recreate one given the correct land preparation (seaweed& manure is good!) U can alsoo sell the crop easily to local grocers, who are always willing to take surplus of luxury crops, and I always wanted to experiment with hotbeds, but never got around to it.
Old tyres (washed) make excellent courgette cradles...and when stacked u can grow potatoes vertically and yield a cwt from one 8 tyre stack!!

oo arr thrickety thrick *hehe*

decadnids

25th February 2003, 14:36

Originally posted by carbonizedeyesockets
me an the missis we re actually thinking of doing this in brighton. we have been doing it regarding our allotment mostly just swapping seeds and helping others with manual work here and there.

wow, I been thinking of LETS for ages, also have an allotment, and also live in brighton.

where abouts is your allotment? mine is in portslade, nice sized plot too - a lot of work, as we have only just got it, and it hadn't been used for 10 years, so totally over-grown etc.

dirtyho

25th February 2003, 14:47

I can get loads of seeds, cuttings etc on the cheap as my ex is a gardener and does loads of seed swapping/nicking with friends and clients.

invisibleplanet

25th February 2003, 14:50

:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

u peeps are cool!

decadnids

25th February 2003, 15:09

Originally posted by dirtyho
I can get loads of seeds, cuttings etc on the cheap as my ex is a gardener and does loads of seed swapping/nicking with friends and clients.

fruit and veg stuff?

decadnids

25th February 2003, 15:13

Originally posted by invisibleplanet
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

u peeps are cool!

well we try ;P

serious tho, getting an allotment for me is a test to see if I am serious about self-sufficiency, I am doing it with 3 other people, sharing the work load and sharing the goodies.

you had an allotment, so you know how cheap they are, we pay 20 quid year for what us basically 1/3 of an acre of land, thats fucking cheap. we are gonna get another plot, so that we have more space.
not many people realise about allotments, and how cheap they are, the local authorities never really advertise anything about them, more "younger" people should think about getting one.

phil

25th February 2003, 15:15

i grow carrots at the momment, but am thinking of getting rid of my garden and fit decking, cause its nice in the summer. Do u like decking?

penciLneck

25th February 2003, 15:16

thats where chelmsford hard cunts bury their bodies.

pille'ocheoni

25th February 2003, 15:17

this sounds great.........i glad to hear all the effort going towards such postive ways of living..........do you guys use organic practices?

decadnids

25th February 2003, 15:17

Originally posted by phil
i grow carrots at the momment, but am thinking of getting rid of my garden and fit decking, cause its nice in the summer. Do u like decking?

depends if you want a leisure garden or a working garden, personally decking is for pansies. ;P

dirtyho

25th February 2003, 15:17

Yeah decs, fruit and veg - I really miss all the organic veg I got to eat when I was with her. She'd just turn up with stuff and I'd dream up a "special of the day" based on it, yum yum ;)

If you want I'll hook you up with her for some advice, she really knows her shit and pretty much all of her clients are organic so she knows loads about comfry water fertilizers and tricks like that.

decadnids

25th February 2003, 15:18

Originally posted by pille'ocheoni
this sounds great.........i glad to hear all the effort going towards such postive ways of living..........do you guys use organic practices?

as far as possible, the plot we recently got hadn't been used for over 10 years, so the ground is pretty furtile, and stuff - good rich soil. and hopefully there isn't too many inpurities.

decadnids

25th February 2003, 15:19

Originally posted by dirtyho
Yeah decs, fruit and veg - I really miss all the organic veg I got to eat when I was with her. She'd just turn up with stuff and I'd dream up a "special of the day" based on it, yum yum ;)

If you want I'll hook you up with her for some advice, she really knows her shit and pretty much all of her clients are organic so she knows loads about comfry water fertilizers and tricks like that.

Yeah that would be really good mate, cheers!!!

phil

25th February 2003, 15:20

I don't think you understand,we have two floors in our garden. sounds crazy but we have like a climbing frame covered with decking. of course the grass gets sun, because we can dismantle it. it's a great idea. do you think it would sell.

decadnids

25th February 2003, 15:22

Originally posted by phil
I don't think you understand,we have two floors in our garden. sounds crazy but we have like a climbing frame covered with decking. of course the grass gets sun, because we can dismantle it. it's a great idea. do you think it would sell.

ah I see what you mean, so you kinda have best of both worlds...
are you going into garden design?

phil

25th February 2003, 15:25

Yes i am very in to garden design. do you want to talk about ideas?

JE:5

25th February 2003, 15:25

http://burn.ucsd.edu/~anow/anow.gif ;)

decadnids

25th February 2003, 15:26

Originally posted by phil
Yes i am very in to garden design. do you want to talk about ideas?

well we are getting another plot, which is going to be more experimental on the growing front, any ideas of structures that would optimise space, but also aid in growing would be handy.

phil

25th February 2003, 15:28

You must of heard of Buckmeister fuller? he was the don dada of space optimisation.
Have you thought about metal frame structures? with wood? Im not talking watch towers, just maximising vertical space, which is often ignored. Do you have a high fence?

decadnids

25th February 2003, 15:32

Originally posted by phil
You must of heard of Buckmeister fuller? he was the don dada of space optimisation.
Have you thought about metal frame structures? with wood? Im not talking watch towers, just maximising vertical space, which is often ignored. Do you have a high fence?

no fence, heard of bucky fuller, was thinking of doing a geodome as a green-house, just because I love the structure, and it allows for easy expandability.

only vertical things I thought of was some sort of structure for strawberries......

phil

25th February 2003, 15:33

No i was talking about space to sit in the summer, if you are using all available space for plants. u see?

decadnids

25th February 2003, 15:37

Originally posted by phil
No i was talking about space to sit in the summer, if you are using all available space for plants. u see?

ah I see, we are gonna have a lawn area for relaxing, near the pond I am gonna dig, gotta help the poor frogs... I want to try and get some newts interested in the pond, frogs are easy, you just go and get the spawn....

I don't think we need to much stuff for sitting about, as I don't plan to sit about too much!

phil

25th February 2003, 15:42

Ok in that case, what about a tiny wooden house at the bottom of the garden, the house could have many layers for insects. When i mean house i mean that in the broad sense, you could construct it out of a log. Also what about making your own brand of biscuits to sell. create a nice flavour/textured biscut and sell them. is that a good idea?

penciLneck

25th February 2003, 15:42

I'd buy some - sounds tasty.

phil

25th February 2003, 15:44

whos with me, biscuits! we can set up a website and sell them on the web. we can make a video, Pencilneck you are in charge of getting the vinyl cut, decca you can make the biscuits and i can run the website. lets do it!! lets make it worrrrrrrrrrrrrrk

penciLneck

25th February 2003, 15:45

I'm in. Got some sissors?

decadnids

25th February 2003, 15:46

Originally posted by phil
Ok in that case, what about a tiny wooden house at the bottom of the garden, the house could have many layers for insects. When i mean house i mean that in the broad sense, you could construct it out of a log. Also what about making your own brand of biscuits to sell. create a nice flavour/textured biscut and sell them. is that a good idea?

in theory, it is sound, but in practice, I don't think the allotment plot we have is big enough to harvest enough corn, wheat for the biscuits, I think we could probably make a hand full.

as for the house, do you mean a log? or a house, or just a place for the insects to go?

there is a man on the allotment who has bee hives, which is totally cool, as it means he has good suply of honey... wish I could keep chickens... one day tho.

phil

25th February 2003, 15:48

I mean a log with a big hole in it for insects.

I wasn't thinking of growing wheat, we can get flower from Tescos but we can put honey in from the bee man to make it sweet. we can grow berrys cant we?

invisibleplanet

25th February 2003, 15:48

i want to keep bees - my friend gabriel and her husband have bees at the bottom of their garden...they're quite expensive at first - as u need a honey extractor and hives, but the bees can usually be got from your local head bee dude (can't remember what he's called) and as he usually rescues swarms with no where to go, fairly easy to obtain!

penciLneck

25th February 2003, 15:50

I've got a mate who lives in the woods and is fairly self-sufficient - I'll post some images of his little plot and what hes done tomorrow. Its lovely there and purely because he is living and working the land there...

decadnids

25th February 2003, 15:50

Originally posted by invisibleplanet
i want to keep bees

yeah, it seems pretty cool, this bloke has three sites, so he has a heap load of bees - last year he got 200 pounds of honey in total, which is a heck of a lot of honey!

decadnids

25th February 2003, 15:51

Originally posted by penciLneck
I've got a mate who lives in the woods and is fairly self-sufficient - I'll post some images of his little plot and what hes done tomorrow. Its lovely there and purely because he is living and working the land there...

sounds really interesting, where abouts is that?

phil

25th February 2003, 15:52

how much can u sell honey for and how much do bees cost to maintain.

penciLneck

25th February 2003, 15:54

OUt in the sticks in the southwest, got the piccies on my digicamera, but I'll transfer em to my laptop tonight, he's quite a character - heavily self tatooed ex-traveller who also works for the town council where he lives, causes a bit of eyebrow raising when he walks into the council offices all barefooted and smiley.

decadnids

25th February 2003, 15:56

Originally posted by phil
how much can u sell honey for and how much do bees cost to maintain.

not sure on prices of bee keeping IP seems to know a little as her friends do it.

decadnids

25th February 2003, 15:57

Originally posted by penciLneck
OUt in the sticks in the southwest, got the piccies on my digicamera, but I'll transfer em to my laptop tonight, he's quite a character - heavily self tatooed ex-traveller who also works for the town council where he lives, causes a bit of eyebrow raising when he walks into the council offices all barefooted and smiley.

sounds really interesting, has he built himself a nice place to live? can't wait to see the photo's.

phil

25th February 2003, 15:59

must get a good buzz working with bees.

penciLneck

25th February 2003, 16:00

Yeah he has, Phils rumbled me now though - the guy lives in dorset (didn't want to say) coz I'm sure I've told phil about him...baaa
I'll post a new thread with some photos tomorrow.

phil

25th February 2003, 16:02

hahahaha ive had tea with him!! he lives in a sorted trailer! he doesnt sign on he is completly self contained...i think..

penciLneck

25th February 2003, 16:03

I'll get you one day *shakes fist* like the time you pretended to work for Sony....:(

phil

25th February 2003, 16:06

i never pretended to work at Sony, you pretended you were really from Sony. Im going to shoot you.

penciLneck

25th February 2003, 16:09

Whatever, Graham was in on it too, haha.

Lady E

25th February 2003, 16:21

carbonized eye sockets - could really have done with a plasterer a month or two ago...may well need one in the future. ill remember that...

allotment crew - nice one. that is a dream worth having and putting into practice, i would love to do that.

penciLneck

25th February 2003, 16:25

allotment crew - nice one. that is a dream worth having and putting into practice, i would love to do that.

totally agree. the people around me are making me green with envy by actually doing it and succeeding.

baba

25th February 2003, 18:41

IP - are you actually me in a different body? (bunnies, LETS...?)

I too used to have an allotment. It was beautiful - up near Fiveways in Brighton. A long walk away but brilliant. It was on a hill and had a greenhouse that I made all by myself with bits of wood and glass I found in Brighton skips. I had gooseberry bushes and tons and tons of spinach. I'm thinking of getting another one should I decide to stay in bristol.
Emma - you should get one -you would absolutley love it

carbonizedeyesockets

25th February 2003, 18:51

baba: was that in golf valley?? that place is unreal.I could fuckin live there!!!I may have to the prices they charge round here. we wanted that place so bad but the waiting list is like 2years or something
If anyone wants to grow stuff on ours they can its well massive..we couldnt possibly use it all!

baba

25th February 2003, 19:04

i can't remember exactly what it was called - Valley something. You had to walk along a little lane - Beautiful at sunset - all golden.

ahh - i miss brighton now

jess-ssej

25th February 2003, 21:28

Not to be the retarded american...but what exactly is the deal w/ allotments anyway? Are they set up by the govt.....but you hage to rent them...right? I dont know that we do that here in Minnesota....though I've seen community gardens somewhere, but 'allotments' sound much bigger. Also, are these usually by your house? How do you maintain them...if not, watering and all that jazz..... ?

Interesting stuff... sounds appealing to me esp. as the US regulations on what is labelled organic or not are in flux right now...heard something on public radio about "organic" raised chickens now being fed terrible stuff but still allowed to be labelled "organic" or some such thing.

dirtyho

25th February 2003, 22:27

I think you rent them off the council (local government). They are usually quite big (acres) and divided into plots. They are often by railway tracks or near cemataries and stuff like that. I think they may have hosepipe taps but I'm not sure. In the UK they are usually associated with old men in flat caps who smoke pipes ;)

baba

25th February 2003, 22:58

Allotments first came into existence during the second world war. People in cities were on tight rations and due to lack of imported produce people started growing their own on patches of waste land. When the war ended the goverment realised that this was a successful way of ensuring poor townsfolk and children had access to a supply of fresh veg. During the war - city health actually improved rather than declining as they expected, so they kept it up. Most British towns have established allotment plots from the 1940's - it might even be a duty of the council to maintain them. Most of them have a water supply (my old one had several taps) .
A lot of the old men and women that you see pottering around have had their allottments since the end of the war. Thay are a great and enduring product of post war British socialism/old Labour. One of the few things about this country I am still extremely proud of.

decadnids

26th February 2003, 11:21

Yeah allotments are one of the only good things the government have still kept - now they also advertise them as leisure gardens for those folks who just want a space to relax in away from "INDOORS". I think everyone should get one, as its your right, even if you don't grow veg. on them, get them anyway and claim you little bit of england!!!!!