creeping expansion

[c s]

Traffic supervision with an integrated face reconnaissance

The automated system to the traffic check also shall serve the defense of potential terrorists. In future, with the system you shall supervise actually, whether cars which drives on the city center of London have a corresponding chargeable approval. The British newspaper of The Observer reports of technical possibilities of the plant kept secret till now now.

Who drives on the inside urban area of London as of February 17th must have an approval. The menu of the day costs five pounds (eight euros). It was said till now a ring of supervision camerae installed around the city center all around serves to include the license plates of the one and car going for a ride merely. However, the camerae also include the faces of the drivers according to the Observer and these coordinate with databases of the police. Civil rights campaigners protested this "creeping expansion" of the supervision. (wst/c't)

[jamyna]

Disgusting.
Just combine that, with the ever expanding DNA fingerprint database which the police in England enforce compliance upon all suspects nowdays, you have all the tools of a potentially surpressive regime to exploit.

[c s]

i really wondered why the english people let the gouvernment install these thousands of cctv cameras all over the country without protest. but then i doubt people here would recognise the dangers - it already started and almost no-one complains...

[Mirsha]

Personaly I don't care as long as the government keeps out my way. Regardless of how much you might bitch that this is all an invasion of privacy I still belive it is keeping the streets safer, the real danger comes if such a system is misused which I don't belive will really happen because the Government does not give a shit about small things, the system will be used against proper criminals.

[Yer_Maw]

i wouldnt worry, i know loads of people working in the call centre dealing with this :) its a bit crap:)

[c s]

Originally posted by Mirsha
if such a system is misused which I don't belive will really happen because the Government does not give a shit about small things, the system will be used against proper criminals.

cool, i wish i ever had so much trust in the state and in the good will of the gouvernment - i'd feel much more comfortable. but even then, who says the surveillance will remain in the hands of the gouverment at all? the tendency is to use private agencies for police tasks, even in prisons etc. and who says, if you pretend to be ill for example, don't go to work but show up in public, that this is a small thing? "millions of people do this and this weakens our economy, so, also by demand of all the honest workers, we now decided to set up an image database of employees..." etc.etc.

the only safe way to prevent misuse is to stop gathering random data.

[alex cortex]

a friend of mine, studio-owner, was called by some security agency. they offered to put cameras into all his studio-rooms, so they could tape burglar-activities and even get in contact with that burglar. it´s one of the most ridiculous and boldest attempts of that sort ever to cross my way so far. maybe it´s riaa behind that, trying to find out about copyright ownership before it´s even released...

[invisibleplanet]

I don't much care about being on camera anywhere. As I am not a criminal, this doesn't affect me.

It's not an infringement of our privacy, they're all on public streets, so I don't think it's a problem.

[invisibleplanet]

Originally posted by alex cortex
a friend of mine, studio-owner, was called by some security agency. they offered to put cameras into all his studio-rooms, so they could tape burglar-activities and even get in contact with that burglar. it´s one of the most ridiculous and boldest attempts of that sort ever to cross my way so far. maybe it´s riaa behind that, trying to find out about copyright ownership before it´s even released...

I don't like the sound of that, however! That would be bad idea in a recording studio - it's a bad idea, imo, in any private place.

[Tomoki]

We´ve got this camera-supervision thing in Frankfurt, too. It overview a place called "Konstablerwache". The funny thing is that the dealers now deal in the b-level of the subway-station.

[aleks]

nächster halt konstabler wache...gib mir korrekte 220

[alex cortex]

well, this is the wanted effect (wanted by city-officials): to better their criminality statistics by relocating delinquency to non-representative areas of their city or simply somewhere "invisible" within the area. another example therefore is the day-by-day relocation of homeless people to the outskirts with buses, happening in big german cities without even being noticed anymore by the public.

[Weishaupt]

gibst du mir korrekt, gebe ich dir immer korrekt....weist du ich bin korrekte mann


hehe...........
cool old classicer

[c s]

Originally posted by invisibleplanet
I don't much care about being on camera anywhere. As I am not a criminal, this doesn't affect me.

hmm, incredible to me. i mean i expect these statements from conservatives but not here. it really seems that you just get used to it once it's there. i think it's a horrible vision that someone sits in the dark with a joystick moving the camera and watches every step i make, making recordings that can prove a few months later where i have been and if i did something that seemed 'suspicious'. being a criminal or not also depends on the current laws, and laws can be changed (like in the u.s.) or broken by the state itself. this has happened many, many times. and i really don't have the impression the current uk gouvernment is an example of integrity and sensibility!

that's why we shouldn't allow the infrastructure to be built up here at all. sacrificing freedom for security is definitely the wrong way, and if the gouverment is trustworthy and good, why protest against war in iraq then?

It's not an infringement of our privacy they're all on public streets, so I don't think it's a problem.

ok. next we have the total surveillance of the internet and all other communication channels (as planned in the u.s.). no problem either??

[c s]

Originally posted by alex cortex
well, this is the wanted effect (wanted by city-officials): to better their criminality statistics by relocating delinquency to non-representative areas of their city or simply somewhere "invisible" within the area. another example therefore is the day-by-day relocation of homeless people to the outskirts with buses, happening in big german cities without even being noticed anymore by the public.

that's it, exactly - you saved me some time. :D what about uk statistics concerning this?

[c s]

anyone remember photek/the hidden camera?

[alex cortex]

just recently saw this documentary about a surveillance bus used at some big square in london. they said, people are already used to it being there. the car is openly visible equipped with lots of cameras, one on the roof can even be pulled up to about 7 meters of height. they are all controlled from within the bus.

[alex cortex]

yep, i remember photek - hidden camera. to me it´s the best he ever did and to me one of the best "dnb" records of all times.

[Tomoki]

Originally posted by Weishaupt
gibst du mir korrekt, gebe ich dir immer korrekt....weist du ich bin korrekte mann




Ey Alder,pass auf, sonsch hohl isch meine korrägden Freunde.

Isn´t the song from the Tschabos?

[c s]

just imagine you're being followed by a man everytime you leave your house, in a 100m distance, he never goes away, he's always there all your life. he watches every step you make and gives a detailed report about it every day - not to you but to some hidden instance. when you enter a shop, a bank, a train (station), there are always others that take over and see what you do, whom you speak to, what you buy... all this is written down. everytime you drive your car and your license plate and your face are photographed by other men from the roadside and compared with an encyclopedia of potential threats to the hidden instance. when you write an email there's probably no man looking over your shoulder, but don't worry, 'the men' care even here and to protect you for your own good your mail is read - or at least scanned for potential dangers - as soon as you send it.

this is nothing else but what gestapo and stasi (eastern german secret service) ever dreamt of - total control of the individual. nothing happens without us knowing about it. don't even start thinking it's 'for your own good'. real terrorists would at least try to encrypt their data or meet somewhere else in the countryside or whatever - so all the scanning (camera, internet etc) affects only the 'normal' citizen in the end - or perhaps the a bit less normal one, or the one who's not normal enough... anyway the real crime is just pushed somewhere else.

additionaly there's the dangers of faking such data in order to falsely accuse people etc. etc.

[c s]

Originally posted by alex cortex
the car is openly visible equipped with lots of cameras, one on the roof can even be pulled up to about 7 meters of height. they are all controlled from within the bus.

this is ill...

[Weishaupt]

Originally posted by Tomoki


Ey Alder,pass auf, sonsch hohl isch meine korrägden Freunde.

Isn´t the song from the Tschabos?


aldeeeeeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrr


no...it was SMASH.....................

[c s]

Protection of data privacy: the eternal SMS

The Bulgarian mobile phone network operator mobile Tel. stores all SMS going by its net and is prudent for this also with a Bulgarian big Brother Award in January been. This one the mobile radio operator accounts with that for the durable storage of all SMS according to the big Brother organizers, one provides for case that

the authorities wanted to find a customer, "who sent uncensored or vulgar news from personal, religious or political motives."

[jamyna]

Originally posted by invisibleplanet
I don't much care about being on camera anywhere. As I am not a criminal, this doesn't affect me.

It's not an infringement of our privacy, they're all on public streets, so I don't think it's a problem.

Thats where you're wrong in my view. this is the argument that governments everywhere are now using to sneak in a whole load of schemes which enable them to monitor activity of their populations: "If your not a criminal, and you have nothing to HIDE, then this is of no concern to you". That philosphy is a fundamental bastardisation of what democracy supposidley stands for. what the fuck happened to the individuals right to privacy? recent terrorist activities have been a dream come true to the government only in as much that they are now able to push through legislation previously seen as morally dubious (eg electronic comm monitors) in the name of "protecting the nation against terrorism"

[dirtyho]

Did loads of this on my degree. IP i'm afraid your argument is ludicrous if you actually analyse the patterns of usage of the surveillance powers governments have. They claim extended internet surveillance powers are to hunt paedophiles and other groups which can create a moral panic in the press. (Actually all the evidence is that there are perfectly usable legal measures in place to pursue paedophiles because they are already breaking the law). Then they use it to grab data about hunt sabs, enviromental groups, anti-capitalists - you know the score. I'm surprised at your comment IP.

"ok. next we have the total surveillance of the internet and all other communication channels (as planned in the u.s.)."

not planned cs, it is realised already
http://cryptome.org/echelon-ep-fin.htm

[c s]

yep i know about echelon (fits in here quite well) but i think they wanted to go a step further. it was blocked by the congress i think but who knows for how long... :-\

[c s]

No total supervision for U.S. citizen

U.S. senate and parliament don't have the supervision program TIA planned by the Ministry of Defense for information Awareness to support against the own citizens declared together, (total). Representative of both houses professed, corresponding plan of the controversial program leader not further to support John M. Poindexter. The information Awareness Office (IAO) in the Pentagon is Poindexter as a boss, to develop a system which searches the worldwide private and commercial data traffic for samples which indicates terrorist activities. This also should happen in the USA where the secret services were prevented by citizens officially from the access to the data till now.


After the presentation of the program in November last year U.S. civil rights campaigners had solidly protested the planned interventions in the privacy. They got support from politicians from the democratic and the republican store. In January, the senate agreed to a law which depending makes financial performances for the TIA program of detailed reports on costs and aims of the program as well as the effects on the privacy and the civil rights.
With the new common explanation of convention and senate gets the program at least in the country of one's own still narrower reins laid out? What doesn't mean that TIA would be thus completely put on ice, though? Outside the USA armed forces and news services shall realize the program in the name of the counter terrorism as planned, the civil rights and possible legal regulations of other states don't play a role in this. (pmz/c't)

...which doesn't mean it's time to lay back & relax...

ah yes and i apologize for the automatic translations being a bit crude - no time for doing it manually...

[invisibleplanet]

well, i can see why u think my statement is ludicrous!
but look at this from my point of view.

somewhere, in a darkened room, sits a very sad man, who is being paid to listen to all the dross and babble which i talk, and read all the dross i write. occasionally, he'll follow me as i walk the gauntlet of spy-cams through the city. he knows what magazines i buy, what food i eat, where i go to enjoy myself, who my friends are. he knows who my dad is, my grandfather's middle name, and how many toes i have.

and as a dossier collects about my habits and contacts, he'll probably be breaking current lawas which already exist in terms of data protection. I ought to legally be allowed to see the files.

how can a small person like me fight the giants?
i can only think to wait until the inevitable proof that something like this is wrong (echelon) and the information gleaned could be used competitively in the world market.

i actually do not agree with such large scale surveillance as echelon, but small local cameras which protect the streets and commercial centres from petty theives, muggers, and vandals is not a problem for me.


CEMTEX

[dirtyho]

I know what you're saying, I don't think cameras per se are a problem. But citizens not caring what is done with the cameras as long as they don't get in trouble is a problem (btw I'm not implying you think like this IP). Feeling as if cameras are OK because of your good behaviour is just slightly complacent IMHO. What if behaviour you are involved in now becomes criminalised - this is the worry (like free parties being criminalised in the UK.)

[owain_k]

Granted, I don't personally like the idea that "big brother" is somehow intruding into my life with cameras and screened phone calls etc......

But, given that local CCTV helped my mate when he was assaulted, it does go someway to making me think in terms of security....it does have some use. Much of this technology, as far as i can understand is primarily to help the police target their ressources more effectively, given that their annual budgets are slashed year upon year by the UK government who seem to obsessed with saving money and going to war....as opposed to delivering effective public service ... such as keeping the streets safe, clean etc.....

[c s]

Originally posted by owain_k
local CCTV helped my mate when he was assaulted

in which way? so he was assaulted although there was cctv? what's the use then?

[owain_k]

In this instance, my mate was assaulted and it happened to be caught on a CCTV camera.....the footage was used in court to against the perpetrator and helped secure a conviction for ABH.

[c s]

and what does he get out of that? to me it only proves filming the whole population doesn't prevent the 0,5% criminals from assaulting people. so it penetrates the life of 99,5% for nothing. what is abh?

[owain_k]

ABH = Actual Bodily Harm

Its an official term for "being beaten up"......

Don't get me worng, I'm not that happy that about the presence of CCTV everywhere in the UK myself....all I was trying to highlight was the fact it does have some positive applications !

EG. My friend took the idiot to court who beat him up and won because of the fact the it was caught on CCTV....

[c s]

Originally posted by owain_k
all I was trying to highlight was the fact it does have some positive applications !

for revenge, after it has happened, ok, but i thought it was about prevention...

[invisibleplanet]

like minority report? or the new trend in pre-emptive/preventative action?

[c s]

i saw the film but it was the type of american english i only understand 1/4 of...

[invisibleplanet]

c s
how can we prevent such crimes without completely transforming society as we know it?

[c s]

err which crimes, the crimes in the film? i guess many things shown there (concerning indentification of individuals) are not so unrealistic, although the whole thing is quite exaggerated. first of all the "precog"-thing involves metaphysics which i'm not such a fan of.

[Weishaupt]

hm......isnt a spökenkieker not a kind of präkognic?????

[invisibleplanet]

Originally posted by c s
err which crimes, the crimes in the film? i guess many things shown there (concerning indentification of individuals) are not so unrealistic, although the whole thing is quite exaggerated. first of all the "precog"-thing involves metaphysics which i'm not such a fan of.

originally by c s but i thought it was about prevention...

i was thinking of the crimes which occur in real life.

perhaps we could use probability to attempt to work this out, however, it could be a bit of a 'Deep Thought' affair....
there must be some criminologists somewhere working out who is most likely to commit a crime.

[c s]

Originally posted by Weishaupt
hm......isnt a spökenkieker not a kind of precognic?????

yeah but that only works in friesland. so i was actually lying predicting you a dark past, as i can only foretell tidal waves, storms and evoke spiritual appearences (ghosts) near the northern german coasts. ;)

[Weishaupt]

*g

so are you a raindancer?

[c s]

Originally posted by invisibleplanet
there must be some criminologists somewhere working out who is most likely to commit a crime

...or genetic research... "your baby's dna is the ony of a criminal - you sure you want his child?" :-\

[c s]

Originally posted by Weishaupt
so are you a raindancer?

if you'd ever been here you'd know we definitely don't need any more rain than we already have.

[invisibleplanet]

that's silly c s, people's survival instinct is branded criminal by society, among other things which society probably has no right to govern.
i steal a loaf of bread because i'm hungry and get my hand chopped off.

there is no gene for ciminality - criminals are a product of environment and circumstance!

[c s]

Originally posted by invisibleplanet
that's silly c s

no it's cynical, in fact i absolutely agree with your posting.

[invisibleplanet]

hehe - ok
cynicism is a noble philosophy imm

[Weishaupt]

Originally posted by invisibleplanet
hehe - ok
cynicism is a noble philosophy imm

hm....

[invisibleplanet]

u have heard of the 'Cynics', haven't u, weisi?

[Weishaupt]

Originally posted by invisibleplanet
u have heard of the 'Cynics', haven't u, weisi?

doch schon............yes..........

[invisibleplanet]

here: http://www.arthurchappell.clara.net/greek.precursers.htm

[Weishaupt]

?

[c s]

Originally posted by invisibleplanet
here: http://www.arthurchappell.clara.net/greek.precursers.htm

would be interesting, but far too long in english for me... for me the question with cynicism is if you are cynical, i.e. act like that, be inhuman etc. or if you just use it for jokes that have a bitter background and 'sharply light up' a topic. of course it's also fun. lol