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CV
27th June 2006, 17:12
taken from the US Dept of Energy official site http://www.fossil.energy.gov/programs/oilgas/hydrates/index.html


A methane hydrate is a cage-like lattice of ice, inside of which are trapped molecules of methane (the chief constituent of natural gas). In fact, the name for its parent class of compounds, "clathrates," comes from the Latin word meaning "to enclose with bars."

Methane hydrate form in generally two types of geologic settings: (1) on land in permafrost regions where cold temperatures persist in shallow sediments, and (2) beneath the ocean floor at water depths greater than about 500 meters (about 1,640 feet) where high pressures dominate. The hydrate deposits themselves may be several hundred meters thick.


Scientists have known about methane hydrate for a century or more. French scientists studied hydrate in 1890. In the 1930s, as natural gas pipelines were extended into colder climates, engineers discovered that hydrate, rather than ice, would form in the lines, often plugging the flow of gas.

These crystals, although unmistakably a combination of both water and natural gas, would often form at temperatures well above the freezing point of ordinary ice. Yet, for the next three decades, methane hydrate was considered only a nuisance, or at best, a laboratory oddity.

That viewpoint changed in 1964. In a northern Siberian gas field named Messoyakha, a Russian drilling crew discovered natural gas in the "frozen state," or in other words, methane hydrate occurring naturally. Subsequent reports of potentially vast deposits of "solid" natural gas in the former Soviet Union intensified interest and sent geologists worldwide on a search for how -- and where else -- methane hydrate might occur in nature. In the 1970s, hydrate was found in ocean sediments.

In late 1981, the drilling vessel Glomar Challenger, assigned by the National Science Foundation to explore off the coast of Guatemala, unexpectedly bored into a methane hydrate deposit. Unlike previous drilling operations which had encountered evidence of hydrate, researchers onboard the Challenger were able to recover a sample intact.

Today, methane hydrate has been detected around most continental margins. Around the United States, large deposits have been identified and studied in Alaska, the west coast from California to Washington, the east coast, including the Blake Ridge offshore of the Carolinas, and in the Gulf of Mexico.

In 1995, the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS) completed its most detailed assessment of U.S. gas hydrate resources. The USGS study estimated the in-place gas resource within the gas hydrate of the United States ranges from 112,000 trillion cubic feet to 676,000 trillion cubic feet, with a mean value of 320,000 trillion cubic feet of gas. Subsequent refinements of the data in 1997 using information from the Ocean Drilling Program have suggested that the mean should be adjusted slightly downward, to around 200,000 trillion cubic feet -- still larger by several orders of magnitude than previously thought and dwarfing the estimated 1,400 trillion cubic feet of conventional recoverable gas resources and reserves in the United States.

Worldwide, estimates of the natural gas potential of methane hydrate approach 400 million trillion cubic feet -- a staggering figure compared to the 5,500 trillion cubic feet that make up the world's currently proven gas reserves.

CV
27th June 2006, 17:19
From previous threads, I know we at erutufon are keen to solve the world energy crisis, so I wondered if anyone else has been following research into this mysterious substance and how to harness its energy.

Seems to raise many interesting side issues, about the uncertainties of global warming/cooling and which way we are *actually* going - also, I'm reminded again of Lovelock's Gaia theories of Earth, of the planet as a self-regulating dynamic environment... - plus on a philosophical level, the renewed interest in Methane Hydride raises questions about the differences between inorganic and organic compounds, when does chemistry become/defy nature.

Apparently , i've read elsewhere, the release of huge methane bubbles from the depths ( 20 km bubbles for example ) may be behind the mysterious disappearences of sea vessels and aircraft...

spoon
27th June 2006, 17:23
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane_hydrate
Commercial use

The sedimentary methane hydrate reservoir probably contains 2-10x the currently known reserves of conventional natural gas. This represents a potentially important future source of fossil fuel. However, in the majority of sites deposits are likely to be too dispersed for economic extraction (Milkov, 2004). Other problems facing commercial exploitation are: detection of viable reserves; and development of the technology for extracting methane gas from the hydrate deposits. A research and development project in Japan is aiming for commercial-scale extraction by 2016. A potentially economic reserve in the Gulf of Mexico may contain ~1010m3 of gas (Milkov, 2004).

Methane clathrates and climate change

Main article: Clathrate Gun Hypothesis

Methane is a powerful greenhouse gas which, despite its atmospheric lifetime of around 12 years, none the less has a global warming potential of 62 over 20 years and 23 over 100 years. The sudden release of large amounts of natural gas from methane clathrate deposits has been hypothesized as a cause of past and possibly future climate changes. Events possibly linked in this way are the Permian-Triassic extinction event, the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum.

inneresting...

spoon
27th June 2006, 17:25
Apparently , i've read elsewhere, the release of huge methane bubbles from the depths ( 20 km bubbles for example ) may be behind the mysterious disappearences of sea vessels and aircraft...

i've heard about this as well, the mysterious poisoning of huge amounts of fish and so on. obviously if they can extract it safely it could be an attractive alternative to oil - not because it's safe or environmentally friendly but because there's shitloads of it. it doesn't seem like the right path to me, but i'll keep reading...

CV
27th June 2006, 17:26
hence my suggestion of the Gaia principle ... yes , if there is even momentarily , an inbalance of methane and oxygen, the atmosphere could ignite.

remember that movie, The Day The Earth Stood Still?

AVX23
27th June 2006, 17:31
Apparently , i've read elsewhere, the release of huge methane bubbles from the depths ( 20 km bubbles for example ) may be behind the mysterious disappearences of sea vessels and aircraft...

I've also read this, pretty interesting, has the effect of an express elevator straight down, didn't realise they were thinking it was possibility for aircraft.

I think also they have yet to prove it has been responsible for such disappearances - though it is 100% possible, I think they looked into it as being the reaons for some Scottish fishing vessels that went missing a while back, I'm sure it might have been in the metro in fact, but I don't think they could prove it beyond any doubt - in any case - I'd imagine that's going to be really difficult to do due to the environmental issues when conducting any kind of autopsy on it, but I'm no scientist.

On the whole energy thing - interesting stuff indeed - well worth looking at.

spoon
27th June 2006, 17:51
there's a theory that the release of methane hydrate from melting arctic permafrost may set off a global warming chain reaction, and once it starts there's no way to stop it. i think this was mentioned in that Global Dimming documentary that was on last year.

grobelaar
27th June 2006, 18:17
I thought the methane release from artic permafrost had been ruled out as a potential cause of a global chain reaction - can't remember where I heard it - a more recent documentary.

Personally, I think the quicker we move onto using free energy sources for as much of our energy needs as possible the better.

I'm guessing that the brute power provided by fossil fuels will still be useful for mass transportation of cargo, overseas air travel. BUt things like powering our homes and offices, getting to work should all be powered by renewables.

I mean some of the arguments against renewables are ridiculous - visual and noise pollution and upsets local wildlife for the most part - pale when compared to unreversible damage to our liviing environment. Mass extinction of species, famines and various mass catastrophes predicted for climate change.

I mean the example I always think of, is those people in Cumbria getting that windfarm cancelled - fine if that's the way they want it - they probably kickstarted their campaign listening to Radio 4 and posting their internet blogs on their PCs all being powered by Sellafield nuclear powerstation, delivered to them via a series of pylons that criss-cross their so-called precious vision of the countryside. I can see why a few wind turbines would bring such terrible hardship to their lives.

solitary_zen
28th June 2006, 00:58
hence my suggestion of the Gaia principle ... yes , if there is even momentarily , an inbalance of methane and oxygen, the atmosphere could ignite.

remember that movie, The Day The Earth Stood Still?

Just got the new edition of that on DVD the other day - wonderful film.

The only hope for the long term future of our species is for the western way of life to be radically overhauled. No energy source is going to be a solution if we continue to consume the way we do.

Whuffle
7th August 2006, 03:02
hee hee, love opening-up old threads :)

When people object to windfarms etc in their area, simply agree with them.

"Ohhh ok, we are sorry. We didn't know you hated windfarms so much. Don't worry we''ll drop the idea. Now then, where are the blueprints for that nice, comfortably old-fashioned coal-fired power station that will have to go there instead?

What???"

Eventually though, a lot of these "renewable" resources will, if tapped, have an effect on our little planet. They'll be great for centuries or even millenia I am sure, but not forever.

Oh yeah, back to the topic: Methane Hydrate could bolster our fossil fuels I guess, for a while, but it isnt renewable. I suspect it might have been tapped earlier if it were not the case that most governments agree that the polar regions should remain undisturbed.

I don't know what the logistics of getting it out of the ocean floor would be or what form it is in. If it still gasious then I imagine present technology would require little change. If it is solid though... oh dear.

Scoz
7th August 2006, 14:21
Hydrates are sort of waxy.