reaktor vs max/msp

[invisibledan]

hello,
i'm interested in using these apps., but am unsure as to the pros and cons of each.
also i'm not really sure what i want to do with them apart from hopefully make my own "personalised" set up for sequencing and generally mashing stuff up in realtime
are there anythings that one can do amazingly that the other falls flat on its face with?
and, am i actually right in thinking they are similar?
any help would be greatly appreciated
dan


oops, nearly forgot, i have a mac g4 533 384mb

[c s]

i'm on the pc reaktor side, from what i know i'd say

- max looks (is?) more complicated (scientific) than reaktor but it probably just depends on your level of knowledge.

- but max/msp is free, i think, reaktor is not

- it is told reaktor runs better on pc than on mac

generally i guess you could realise the same on both platforms. both have a huge amount of modules.

[Triptonizer]

Originally posted by c s
- but max/msp is free, i think
That's where you're wrong.

:)

[c s]

what ? paying for a program that shows the smallest text/ chars i've ever seen ? then of course reaktor's the better choice. lol

[anarchosyn]

Originally posted by c s
i'm on the pc reaktor side, from what i know i'd say

- max looks (is?) more complicated (scientific) than reaktor but it probably just depends on your level of knowledge.

- but max/msp is free, i think, reaktor is not

- it is told reaktor runs better on pc than on mac

generally i guess you could realise the same on both platforms. both have a huge amount of modules.

Just for the record, max 4 / msp 2 bundle costs $495 without the student discount (www.cycling-74.com).

And no, max-msp kills reaktor in possibility, but also complexity. Max/msp does so because it's a fully intergrated midi-audio-video (jitter v1) system, with the possibility for third party individuals (like ourselves) to code anything that is missing (in C) if we want.

Reaktor is FAR easier to use though, which gives it a leg up if you're only looking at the audio side of things. That's not to say reaktor can do everything msp can to audio, but the basics come easier.

[anarchosyn]

addnote before work:

You can load reaktor into max-msp as a vsti and tweak the hell out of any parameters or audio.

[c s]

yes i knew that you can write your very own modules for max/msp and that video capabilities are integrated. (i once had a gig where a guy did some video realtime rendering with it.) i just thought that for a start, it's not that important. at least i'm not yet bored by reaktor's 'factory' modules and i've been using it for some years.

[euterke]

I'd follow a seminar on Max/Msp and Cycling 74 did by Kit Clayton last falls here in Montreal.... what I can say Max as no limit... but all depends on your capacity to understand the programming on modular.

If you find the Clavia Micro modular or the structure of Reaktor hard... Max/MSP is not for you.

You can spend at least a year or so to do create such small thing... it could be frustrating.

Don't know if u know Sutekh? He ran at the MSP's office and ask them to do the setup he want... sitting on the side of the programmer and learn a lot at this moment.


Other thing... Before that seminar... I was plannig to get an ibook and use MSP... after that... I said to myself... even if I'm a sound designer... I would'nt past the rest of my life on this...

I will wait till the pc version maybe later on this year...

On the other side... if u can manage that modular programming easely... it could be a monster... u can use it to filter or create astunishing video as well.


Best regards,

[anarchosyn]

Heh, cool CS.. just making sure. It's hard to tell what somebody knows from a few lines of intermittent print, know what I mean?

Anyhow, they are booth great tools, and I personally plan to purchase both when I get my g4 next month.

What follows is a post .. well.. just read it :


From: "Greg Thompson" <greg@rhythmicdesign.com> | This is Spam | Add to Address Book
To: max-msp@cycling74.com
Subject: Re: [max-msp] Max/MSP vs Reaktor
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 18:39:44 -0500




I wouldn't consider myself an expert at either interface but I have
used
both of them many times.

It seems "easier" to get basic audio synthesis techniques done quickly
and
efficiently in Reaktor. Reaktor was designed to work 'out of the box'
whereas with Max/MSP you have to dig a bit more (IMO). However, when
dealing
with MIDI, I certainly prefer Max.

MSP is certainly more flexible (since you can add your own objects),
but it
doesnt sound like you are interested in writing any C code at this
point.
Unlike Reaktor, if you like dealing with VST instruments, it's easy to
plug
those into MSP and manipulate them anyway you wish. There are many
free
tools, patches and objects designed for MSP (as there are for Reaktor).

Both environments are messy. I tend to like Reaktor's look and feel
more
than Max/MSP but neither one satisfies me. Once you get into highly
complex
interfaces it can take hours to relearn what everything does if you
don't
build the instruments properly (art in itself).

However, my final "pro" for MSP is simply Csound~. IMO, that makes
Reaktor
look like a toy. And I don't believe Reaktor can do non-realtime
processing.

But like someone else said, why not use both? IMO, if you're
interested in
Computer Music you should be aware of as many environments as possible
so
that when you get an idea you know which environment can do it (perhaps
the
easiest).

Greg

<Cough>, if you dont want to spend any money yet but want a very
powerful
tool, just go to http://www.csounds.com

[c s]

Originally posted by anarchosyn's greg thompson
Once you get into highly
complex
interfaces it can take hours to relearn what everything does

he's definitely right, it's a permanent problem. but 'building things right' is not so easy when you never know exactly what the building process will lead to in the end.

However, my final "pro" for MSP is simply Csound~.

hehe i was just about to try to learn csound (i'm not a programmer) when generator came out. i'm really thankful! lol