tiger x86

[penciLneck]

This is crazy, but no joke, it really works and is faster than the equivilant mac system.

http://www.wired.com/news/mac/0,2125,68501,00.html?tw=wn_sto ry_page_prev2

http://www.osx86project.org/

[Loz]

sounds cool

might have to check this out

[penciLneck]

it works really well, couldn't really believe it until i saw it. however it can be quite tricky installing it natively, there's loads of handy install info here:

http://www.concretesurf.co.nz/osx86/index.php

[Loz]

do you reckon it'll run on my old laptop?

P3 700MHz with 256MB of RAM

[penciLneck]

I reckon it would work well, yeah.

there's a few guides to dualboot here (if you haven't got an external HD)

http://wiki.osx86project.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

and check the other forum link for extra goodies.

[Ruben A]

something for the summernights.. ;) cool. But maybe the new windows will be ready before i manage to fix this.

[Loz]

Damn. P3's are only SSE. This apparently needs SSE2 or above.

my other computer is also too old.

Oh well.

[penciLneck]

darn it, didn't know that. oh well, it is pretty tricky. you saved yourself a fair few hours and probably some lost data. :-)

[Loz]

I could spend the time concentrating on getting SuperCollider working properly in linux, I guess

[penciLneck]

you sure could.

OMFG just found this:

http://wiki.osx86project.org/wiki/index.php/SpeedBoost

it now runs as fast as a real mac when emulated in VMware. god know how fast it runs natively now.

[wheezer]

Downloading the appropriate images now... I've got some extra boxen at home, I was wondering what to do with 'em ;)

[penciLneck]

Aren't wikis great. another great guide appeared.

http://wiki.osx86project.org/wiki/index.php/Dualboot_Related_FAQ

[Tuttle]

YÄÄÄS, wait a long time for this......
It works perfect with Athlon-XP CPU´s(< 2GHz)
some slower on P-IV...
but it is POSSIBLE!!!

[Ruben A]

hmm what about programs? Am I able to install mac-software and use it?? Some say no.. So what´s the use of it?

[penciLneck]

just for fun really. geekfun.

[wheezer]

... but afaik one can get rosetta working if one has the SSE3 support built in to CPU?

last I heard apps such as iTunes worked fine if one had a SSE3 CPU

[penciLneck]

yes apparently so, and I guess there will be more x86 apps appearing soon, there are ports of firefox etc available already.

[grobelaar]

Just speculating, but this time next year when OS X on Intel goes live - what does everyone expect to see (other than Macs running on Intel chips)...

Are Apple going to somehow stop something like this being fully implementable on generic x86? In which case how possible will this be?

Or are they gambling, that if OS X runs on any Intel box that they can be serious competition for Windows.

I suspect to be serious competition they've got to start getting IT managers of companies to switch. I mean if you've got an office full of people who just use MS Office, and the hardware costs the same then it's got to be a pretty tempting package, or am I just being a optimistic of Apple acheiving some sort of slamdunk over M$.

Of course this would in effect relegate their hardware division to that of being the equivalent of BOSE in the hi-fi industry - expensive flashy boxes for people with nice desks and too much money...

Not to mention that Apple would probably just turn into M$ and we'd all be back where we started.

[penciLneck]

Its a weird one for sure. The TPM chip check on the developer machines was stopping tiger x86 from running on a generic pc, but apparently simple to disable. It may be that it leaked unintentionally what with the chip specific action going on and the limited driver support. people are speculating it was intentional, but I doubt it. its just a bit of fun for the hackers and the geek community.

I think apple are probably learning from this though and will come up with a cooler business model because of it. I'm certainly impressed with the speed they seem to have accomplished this in, and it bodes well for the speed of the new platform. dual core sonoma 1/2 inch thick powerbook anyone?

can't wait.

[grobelaar]

Originally posted by penciLneck
dual core sonoma 1/2 inch thick powerbook anyone?

can't wait.

I got the distinct impression that it was the Powerbook range the kickstarted this whole process. I know it's not pretty for the Power Mac either, but the Powerbook range has hit a real wall. The only way they were ever going to get a G5 in a Powerbook would be to produce one of those huge desktop replacement jobs and that was never going to happen.

IBM have just consistently under-delivered on their PowerPCs from the get-go.

Even Microsoft have been affected now - having recently stated that it's x-box 360 will have three 2GHz chips, considerable downrating from the promised 3.5GHz.

[kay101011]

is anyone running such a system already with audio apps (logic, live) .. i've heard that rosetta is quite shit for such tasks.
would be cool if we had a comparison betwen a dual G5 and a state of the art intel machine.

does a amd xp2200+ has SSE3???

[c s]

so some of you really went through this rather complex process

http://www.xplodenet.com/?p=guide ?

or it that one already outdated? of course i'd like to try but i guess i'll wait until it takes only 1 hour.

[penciLneck]

It should take about 20 mins depending on skill level.

good guides here.

http://wiki.osx86project.org/wiki/index.php/Installation_Guides

and http://www.concretesurf.co.nz/osx86/

for loads of individuals expriences/tips

[c s]

some of the links to needed files in the first guide don't work anymore, the second gives me something like ‹•“©؉„Kú)5Å* ¦ÃœSó»Àt½2�.

well i guess if you're familiar with vmware and/or unix it's 20 mins. however, when you never used either of it before... ;)

[Hagbard]

Someone give me the heads up when it will install any piece of OSX software :)

A dual boot Win/OSX machine would be the bollocks... but I aint exactly holding my breath... and I doubt Apple would rush into direct competition with M$..

[penciLneck]

it would be cool if it did, but at the moment this is just for kicks. You can't help thinking these enterprising script kiddies might just code an installer that does all the fiddly stuff and fixes all the flaws, barring sse3 and rosetta of course.

[wheezer]

that stuff'll appear for sure once the final release is around I figure, maybe earlier.

I figure they're probably just not going to offer support to users running the os on non-approved platforms.

They could roll along a while, get a wide array of stable drivers together for the OS, and then possibly go all out and license it without the hardware.

Still, I wonder if that last step will happen.

[Ruben A]

One day apple will sell pc versions of their OS.. or are they as stupid as emagic and only be limited in their own little world forever..?

[grobelaar]

To me, now I am a longtime mac user, so I'm bound to be biased, but if in say 5-10 years from now the situation is turned on it's head and everywhere is running well I'd say OS X, but any flavour of user friendly Unix based OS - that the world of IT would be much better.

I really can't see what they can do with Longhorn to make it considerable better than it already is - not now they've ditched the new file structure. I've never been a windows fan, but I guess it was good in some respects, but maybe it's time is done. I hope so,

[Ruben A]

well, you find windows freaks that somehow means exactly the same about apple´s OS.. ;)
If apple believe in what they create I still wonder why the hell they didn´t make their osX available for Pc´s?? Then it might be visible for us to see who´s really the greatest operating system creator of the woooorrllddd .. hehe. Don´t tell me it´s all about a concept and that all the branding image and shit might fall apart if it´s not run on a mac. Then they die for sure! Ipod is a great example of how to succeed. It´s still here they earn their money, you know.. and wow, it´s even available for pc´s!!?? 1+1= ? :)

[bencodec]

what i really think is gonna be interesting is to see these new intel macs. it seems apple has put so much effort into designing great high speed logic boards to help compensate for the slow progress of their chip manufacturers that once they switch to intel it will be difficult for other PC manufacturers to keep up with the speed of the new apple machines. so we may just see PC users switching to macs to be able to run both mac os and windows on extremely fast machines.

[wheezer]

it's the huge variety of hardware that makes delivering a stable user experience difficult, although those different devices you can plug into your pc should work (in theory) in os x if they want to sell it to everyone.

ms has made some progress with their stricter driver guidelines and WHQL certifications

there's no *nix os out there that does that, and os x hardware support is really far from stellar, outside of apples own devices.

[wheezer]

Originally posted by bencodec
what i really think is gonna be interesting is to see these new intel macs. it seems apple has put so much effort into designing great high speed logic boards to help compensate for the slow progress of their chip manufacturers that once they switch to intel it will be difficult for other PC manufacturers to keep up with the speed of the new apple machines. so we may just see PC users switching to macs to be able to run both mac os and windows on extremely fast machines.

I'm doubtful weather they'll just be able to move that sort of stuff over, or rather work with intel (or via, nvidia, smc) chipsets... the latter would be a hell of a lot cheaper and is what most other manufacturers do. they can still twiddle with firmware, build/use high-quality workstation motherboards and stuff

[bencodec]

Mmm, you may be right, it would certainly be a huge departure from their current business model.

[notorious J.I.M]

The osx86project link is down. Not surprising really.

[penciLneck]

back up now. probably couldn't handle all the hits.

[Dask]

These are definatly exciting times for the mac faithful. (and even the not so faithful mac atheists)

[JonnySpeed]

why, oh why, oh why? just stick to a proper pc running proper windows. it ain't 1991 any more kids. Windows now works everytime without crashing or being a general fuckhead.

the really is no need for Macs at all, specially as the new ones are actually PCs now anyhoooo

[Dask]

Windows is for Mums & Grans.

[decadnids]

Originally posted by JonnySpeed
why, oh why, oh why? just stick to a proper pc running proper windows. it ain't 1991 any more kids. Windows now works everytime without crashing or being a general fuckhead.

the really is no need for Macs at all, specially as the new ones are actually PCs now anyhoooo

windows is rubbish - and you know it. i use both macs and pc's running window's and my windows machines are always more unreliable than the macs running osx - i have only been a mac convert recently; but windows is possibly one of the worst os ever created.

[Dask]

And to make matters worse Windows is my livelyhood. I have to use VB.Net C# SQL Server on a daily basis, along with Administering Windows 2003 servers.

It all sucks big time I tell ya.

[sniffio]

good thing about windows is,,,

u can cheat them.

[wheezer]

Originally posted by decadnids


windows is rubbish - and you know it. i use both macs and pc's running window's and my windows machines are always more unreliable than the macs running osx - i have only been a mac convert recently; but windows is possibly one of the worst os ever created.

I'd say around NT 4/2000 the Windows OS peaked in terms of quality - a stable kernel, fairly good selection of drivers, stable OS.

NT 4 was actually even better, it lacked all the superfluous doodads introduced in future versions. I think if I were an employer today I might still install NT 4...

[Ruben A]

Originally posted by Dask
Windows is for Mums & Grans.

See, thats what I think about OsX.. build for those who can´t use a "screwdriver". Speak&Spell on a higher state...

lol

[decadnids]

Originally posted by Ruben A


See, thats what I think about OsX.. build for those who can´t use a "screwdriver". Speak&Spell on a higher state...

lol

os X has is an amazing development environment.

its pretty powerful, and you can get under the hood of the OS. its more flexible than windowz.

[wheezer]

For developers, OS X fucking rocks, despite MSDN

[c s]

using the same xp installation for 27 months now. hundreds of pieces of software installed and uninstalled, including many questionable tools, dozens of games. still no need to have music software on a separate installation like i had to in the past with other windows. everything just works, and in these 2.25 years i had about 3 os crashes. i almost forgot what a crash is since xp.

[Ruben A]

yep me too... I even ran Live! and Logic without any probs at 256DDR.

Today i had 2 crashes on my G4 at work..

hihi

[c s]

and during those 27 months i also installed new hardware btw.

[pille'ocheoni]

wow. all up on this

[penciLneck]

well looks like apples finally shutdown all these sites. pretty fast work too. maybe we should delete this thread in case its construed as being a breach too. could someone oblige?

[Yer_Maw]

Cunts, its only information.

[penciLneck]

oops. sites are back up and down, must have been traffic issues, the concretesurf forum was getting 30gb traffic a day apparently.

[Yer_Maw]

phew. not that i care though, i cant even install linux.

[wheezer]

Apple _has_ gone after some french site already though...