An apology for American fascism

[Mercedez Ben]

Sorry dudes. The bad guys won again.

[Sheridan]

true, but flip a coin. if it isn't one stupid white man than it is another.
here is senate minority leader (soon to be majority leader) trent lott plotting the destruction of the world. this photo gives me chills.

[marcel]

didn't died the only senator who voted against bushs warplans at an airplanecrash becore election in his state? (he was supposed to be voted)

doesn't know how big the difference between democrats and republikans is(i think thery small, we have the same problems here in germany, no alternatives).
but i think it will become really bad now

[Tomoki]

Originally posted by marcel
)

doesn't know how big the difference between democrats and republikans is(i think thery small, we have the same problems here in germany, no alternatives).
but i think it will become really bad now

But we have more alternatives than the Americans, isn’t it?I know only two parties in the US, the democrats and the republicans.

[deccard]

Originally posted by Tomoki


But we have more alternatives than the Americans, isn’t it?I know only two parties in the US, the democrats and the republicans.

...but do we really have a choice in germany?
all those big parties only differ in the amount of stupidity and corruption and shortsightedness.
but it could be much more worse i must admit.
we don´t have a bush junta. *knocks on wood*

that plaincrash of the senator is really a big fuck up. what a coincidence...

[deccard]

heres another one:
spokesman boucher about the targeted killings in yemen(5 possible al-quaida members killed by a rocket fired by a drone/unmanned plane)

QUESTION: I'm sure many Israelis are wondering what the difference is between this and in targeted killing. And me, too.
MR. BOUCHER: As far as the events in Yemen, I have nothing for you on that.

QUESTION: But can you say that you are against targeted killings?

MR. BOUCHER: Our policy on targeted killings in the Israeli-Palestinian context has not changed --

QUESTION: And in other contexts?

MR. BOUCHER: I'm not going to speculate.

QUESTION: Well, so you have one rule for one conflict and another rule for another conflict?

MR. BOUCHER: I would say that -- if you look back at what we have said about targeted killings in the Israeli-Palestinian context, you will find that the reasons we have given do not necessarily apply in other circumstances.
...

"their rules" for "their world"...?!

[Sheridan]

Originally posted by marcel
doesn't know how big the difference between democrats and republikans is


the only difference between a republican and a democrat is that a republican will at least tell you when he is going to fuck you.

[tsr_tomas]

i don´t know much about american politic. but i do know that i would go there search for the american dream, play blackjack and hookers and do stranges stuff. take drugs... ahh, that my friends is what will do when i turn 45 and finnish off with a good old Rock n roll death.

cheers !

[zongkong]

"Ok listen fat boy.. either you do as we tell you to do, or "Christer Pettersson" will get mad at you too.."
http://www.44an.com/montage/html/montage_73.html

(On your right: Göran Persson, sweden's current state minister
Christer Pettersson - scapegoat killer of sweden's state minister Olof Palme)

[zongkong]

In case the picture isn't working:
http://www.44an.com/montage/html/montage_73.html

[grobelaar]

"Don't Vote, it only encourages them!"

[invisibleplanet]

i think most of us europeans have realised by now, that the whole IRAQ war attempt is a blind to draw our attentions away from the real & pressing issues of the illegal occupation of Palestine by the Mercenary Israeli Army.

The Jewish religous ideal of regaining the promised land in Palestine has been expoited by the 'Israeli' and American Governments, the Israeli Armee is wholly funded by the US Govt. This is as bad as the exploitation of Jihad by the Taleban.

Another thing, which again is not the fault of the American Citizen, is the encouragement and conversion of native South American People to Judaism, and their subsequent resettlement in the *Holy Land* (300 Native Venezuelans!)
All over the world, people are being converted to Judaism, and then shipped to the front line. Also, Jews the whole world over, especially those from economically depressed countries, are being enticed to settle on land which is not theirs by right, with monetary incentives and promises of land and homes.

The UN needs to avert it's attention from IRAQ immediately, and the American Intelligensia and student population needs to listen to Gore Vidal, who among others, have recently spoken out against these atrocities. Action could be on the scale of the demonstrations against the Vietnam War. Except that this time, it's someone elses peoples who are being exploited and murdered.

Once again, people are being exploited,and what makes it worse, is that it's funded by the American Govt.! This plan to settle the coastline in the Mediterranean/Edge of Europe has been cooked up since the 1950's communist witch hunt's and anti-semitism which was once so strong in the USA. I'm ashamed to live in Britain right now, because of our countries support of the Bush Govt.

Unless the American People begin to demonstrate, then it's no good us Europeans shouting about it. The American Military are placed in a triangle around Israel. They will deflect attention by an attempt to attack Iraq, whilst at the same time, defending the Israeli Occupation of Palestine. They got everyone by the balls.

I'm sorry you're all in this position, but I know I will be on the streets protesting against War in Iraq, with a large banner pointing the finger at the Israeli Invasion. I think we all feel helpless in the face of such a hideous power.

the above are my opinions - i mean no disrespect to the American People, only to their Govt. and Military

[zongkong]

The time for demonstrations is long over - direct action is want counts.
I definetely not mean to disrespect you invis, however I have this feeling that it doesn't matter how much you demonstrate - the Israeli occupation will go on. There are people who share this opinion: the human shields of the ISM (Ínternational Solidarity Movement).

For those who don't know about them - they act as human shields for palestinians, so that they at least don't run a high risk of Israeli attacks.

[pille'ocheoni]

yeah

[invisibleplanet]

Originally posted by zongkong
The time for demonstrations is long over - direct action is want counts.
I definetely not mean to disrespect you invis, however I have this feeling that it doesn't matter how much you demonstrate - the Israeli occupation will go on. There are people who share this opinion: the human shields of the ISM (Ínternational Solidarity Movement).

For those who don't know about them - they act as human shields for palestinians, so that they at least don't run a high risk of Israeli attacks.

no disrespect taken, zongkong! i would like to know more abut the human shields of the ISM (International Solidarity Movement)

I wonder how many people are needed to act as a human barrier to stretch through the breadth of Palestine?

[invisibleplanet]

Thanks zongkong for the infos.

I found some links on http://www.google.com about Human Shields for Palestine, so I will post some of the links here..

These following links show the support from US and worldwide peoles who are trying to act as human shields for the Palestinians.

US Volunteers Act As Human Shields for Palestinian Families
by Ibrahim Hazboun (http://www.commondreams.org/headlines01/0803-01.htm)

nine foreign activists, four of them Britons, were injured when Israeli soldiers opened fire at a peace march near Bethlehem. BBC News
(http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1906570.stm)

This following link shows how Palestinians are acting as shields, and also has links to more infos on their plight..

Palestinian children tout for risky work at border as Israel's tightening grip creates poverty and hunger Guardian Newspaper (http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4476288,00.html)

These following links show how IDF used Palestinians as shields....

Human shields, inhuman soldiers Published in Cairo by AL-AHRAM (http://www.ahram.org.eg/weekly/2002/602/op2.htm)

2 IDF officers sentenced for using Palestinians as human shields (By Ha'aretz Service ) (http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=227778&contrassID=1&subContrassID=5&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y)

(Jerusalem, May 10, 2002) The Israel Defense Forces' (IDF) decision to prohibit the use of Palestinian civilians as "human shields" during military operations is an important step forward toward complying with the requirements of international humanitarian law, Human Rights Watch said today. (http://www.hrw.org/press/2002/05/israel0509.htm)

i don't think i'm brave enough or unselfish enough to act as a shield.

[Sheridan]

how do I start? the whole thing is a big joke. all of this. the whole iraq bullshit that bush is trying to push on the american people/ the world. my government sits in power and keeps on blah blahing about 'weapons of mass destruction' that saddam is building, and how we must stop him. where the fuck do you think saddam got a lot of his weapons and the technology to build them?!?! the good ol us of a thats where. my country has this tendancy to arm developing countries and then turn around and call them a threat. so we can go in and bomb the fuck out of them. spread the message of
'we rule this place motherfucker!'

demonstrations and protests are a pipe dream. I wish I could believe in them but living in the land that 'allows' them I see how they are really handled.
in my country we have this thing called the right to a free asembly. we as people and citizens have the right to get together for a cause or whatever, providing you have the proper permits that you can get from governement offices in that locale. but the govnerment and police know whats up. so they intimidate and frighten the protestors which sometimes ends up in violence. like what happened in seattle and washington dc during the imf meetings.
so you have people armed only with a sign or a bandana being pinned down by a cops batton. looking into a face that is covered with a riot mask and engulfed in tear gas all the while trying to mutter the words 'I am not resisting you officer'. who is hearing the message now?? the fact of the matter is that my government is a war machine. here at home and abroad. now I don't like to say that because I do love my country. america is a great place to live, but if you take a step back and really look at what is going on here you can see that we are no better than the 'evil doers of the world' that we claim to protect everyone from.

we are a country that was founded on violence. we were founded on great ideals and purposes, but they are OUR ideals and purposes. come to america the land of the free and home of the brave, and see how the american indians (the true owners of this land) are treated. sickening. but you will never see our leaders in front of a war crimes tribunal. come to america and see our nations capitol washington dc (my home town) and see the sites that makes this country great. the bill of rights, the constitution, the vietnam memorial. come and see the long LONG list of names of CHILDREN (mostly black and from our inner cities) that went to vietnam and fought and died, and for what?? for the right of the vietnamese people to have a choice between mcdonalds or burger king. it wasn't our war to fight. come see our homeless population mostly consisting of veterans of this war who were spit on and hated for fighting that war. who were turned away from job to job. who came back heroin addicts and never recovered. come and see their disfigured bodies and throw them a quarter while you step over their legs as they are passed out drunk on the corner of 14th street and pennsylvania avenue. just blocks from the white house. come and revel in the beauty.

so what is the answer? really the only way I see a change is a complete over haul of our government and social conscience. we the youths of today need to infiltrate the system and take it over. but of course that is way easier said than done. and now I am out of words. whoever wants the soapbox next can have it, I am going to go take a nap.


'this oragami dream is beautiful, but man these wings will never leave the ground without a feather and lottery ticket, so settle down.'

[gunjack]

http://www.ianai.net/jokes/forumpix/capacity.jpg

[Weishaupt]

Originally posted by invisibleplanet

Re: please don't apologise, DEMONSTRATE!
[/i]

.....jawohl!!!!!!!!

hahaha..really nice

[LEFTHANDLOU]

Let me start by saying that we are all fucked, no matter where we live.

As long as we are forced to vote for a select number ellietist candidates, we will never see a better world.

What is the use of voting when you know either way you are going to get fucked.

Money rules the world, it always has and will. It is in our Human nature to be greedy. I'm not saying that we are all bad, but the majority of people do not have enlightened mind, and they all live in a fantasy world dictated by the media.

For the price of one bomb you can build 50 schools, and then maybe these kids would not be so easy to brain wash. And you would not have suicide bombings, and terrorist. Education is the key.

Free your mind, cause your body is in a cage.

PS. Read Walden by Thoreau. I think he brakes it down quite nicely

[Sheridan]

word lou!

I was reading in the book 'no more prisons' that in like the past 20 years there have been 40 prisons built in california and only one new university.
kinda of scary, don't you think?

[gunjack]

yeah, there are alot of public schoo- oops i mean prisons in cali

[Mercedez Ben]

Originally posted by gunjack
http://www.ianai.net/jokes/forumpix/capacity.jpg

HAHA

[deccard]

Originally posted by LEFTHANDLOU
Let me start by saying that we are all fucked, no matter where we live.

As long as we are forced to vote for a select number ellietist candidates, we will never see a better world.

What is the use of voting when you know either way you are going to get fucked.

Money rules the world, it always has and will. It is in our Human nature to be greedy. I'm not saying that we are all bad, but the majority of people do not have enlightened mind, and they all live in a fantasy world dictated by the media.

For the price of one bomb you can build 50 schools, and then maybe these kids would not be so easy to brain wash. And you would not have suicide bombings, and terrorist. Education is the key.

Free your mind, cause your body is in a cage.

PS. Read Walden by Thoreau. I think he brakes it down quite nicely

you´re absolutely right.
furthermore our schoolsystem sucks. a big brainwashing machine to be a nice citizen.
did you know we had almost the same incident in germany like in columbine highschool?

hm i guess it´s time to watch my mad max survival training video again...the american way is coming lol

[7875]

so say Bush jr. (the third in the trilogy of the Regan Era) decides to bomb Iraq into the stone ages, then what? what about Korea? is the american government going to go to every country it finds "threatening" and in turn threaten it with war unless they do what we say? how much money is enough for these fucks? who the hell in Iraq ever asked to be liberated, especially by America? this is a corporate war for globalizaton and trying to make the world "planet America." we can protest as much as humanly possible, but if they wanted to, they could just quiet us by throwing people in jail or killing them in the streets.

what is the difference between the us governments ideals and the Nazi ideal? how grey is that line?

[deccard]

Originally posted by 7875

what is the difference between the us governments ideals and the Nazi ideal? how grey is that line?

hm i think this are really two different thinks you can´t compare.
both are evil in their own way.

[invisibleplanet]

Originally posted by deccard


you´re absolutely right.
furthermore our schoolsystem sucks. a big brainwashing machine to be a nice citizen.
did you know we had almost the same incident in germany like in columbine highschool?

hm i guess it´s time to watch my mad max survival training video again...the american way is coming lol


hmmm

and imagine if ur 17/18, and ur feeling a failure in the school system, both academically and socially - and the long life ahead of u is already judged as fucked up and failed at such a young age, what options do u have left, but to blow all the people away who helped u to your downfall

i agree it sucks - lets read Malinowski's study on the trobriand islanders (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=%22trobriand+islanders%22) - club together, buy an island and farm, fuck and make music and dance until we die. :D

[gunjack]

ok ok ok, that's enough. stop slagging off america, every country is corrupt in its own way. at the moment, my country has been taken over by the right wing, but it is a nation built on ideas that some of us still believe in. while it is true that civil rights are a joke now and the war on iraq is a very selfish campaign, WE ARE NOT NAZIS. you people go too far. we are not putting muslims in ovens and the number of civilian casualties of america's "war on terrorism" does not even come close to the genocide of the nazis.

yes my country is fucked at the moment. yes big brother is becoming a reality. yes there are a lot of dirty and disgusting things going on behind closed doors... but look at your own countries - does corruption not exist on some level in your own back yard as well? do you really think your leaders would be so ethical and moral when their citizens are calling for blood after a massacre on home soil?

it is very easy to sit and complain about the united states, but a lot of people DIED in my country, just so some fucking arab fundamentalists could make a point! do you support that? no i am sure you do not. but this continued america bashing is very childish and doesn't lead to pragmatic solutions in ANY scenario.


i love and cherish the ideals upon which my country was built. i loathe the hypocrisy it has become. i do not support the conservative republican regime in my country, nor do i respect the leadership abilities of the hick we have in the highest office... but i do believe that the united states is a better place to live and be (somewhat) free, than a lot of other nations where the people are forced to monitor their speech and actions as carefully as possible. and where governments use monetary aid meant for food, instead, for the development of weapons of mass destruction.



you all say: if bush attacks iraq, why not n. korea? because of japan. kim jong ill has been threatening to nuke japan for as long as he has been in power. they tested a cruise missile off the coast of this country not too long ago, which prompted koizumi to seek diplomatic solutions to the n. korean conflict and ask the united states to do the same.

if america ever attacked n. korea directly, it would spell disaster for japan.



so anyway, quit acting like the USA is oppressing you personally. from what i understand, germany, england and spain (where most board members reside) are not countries where people are starving as a result of the American agenda.‚¤

and while it is ever so noble to stand up for the rights of the impoverished citizens of 3rd world countries by talking shit on a message board, there are actually actions you can take that would be a bit more effective....




yes the american government is fucked. yes, bush is a fucking nightmare. yes something has to change - but is your own government so flawless? does your own consumerism not encourage the westernization of developing nations? have you done anything personally to effect change or are you just bitching because it is easy?



thought for food.

[gunjack]

http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/graphics/bushclueless.jpg
"Do you have blacks too?" - Bush to Brazil's President Fernando Henrique Cardoso, Nov. 8, 2001

http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/graphics/bushsmart.jpg
"We hold dear what our Declaration of Independence says, that all have got uninalienable rights, endowed by a Creator." George W. Bush, to community and religious leaders in Moscow, May 24, 2002

http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/graphics/bush_dolt.jpg
"The problem with the French is that they don't have a word for entrepreneur." George W. Bush, discussing the decline of the French economy with British Prime Minister Tony Blair


http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/blbushisms.htm

[gunjack]

http://www.automotiveforums.com/kris/kris/+junk/bush2.gif

[invisibleplanet]

Hey gunnie - i don't think that the thoughts of the young people discussing things in this thread are to be taken as a an accusation tha America = NAZI. I think there's been a comparison in this thread of current american govt = Fascism which is a different thing altogether. Fascisim still exists, and any Government with extremist 'right' principles will be compared to this black period in our European history, and probably with good cause, especially after the deep US Government involvement in Srebenica, the Afghanistan, Sudan, and the Iran/Iraq war, and the instability in South America.

read these and weep: http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,688310,00.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/waronterror/story/0%2C1361%2C583254%2C00.html
http://www.ppu.org.uk/temp/backyard%20_terrorism.html
http://mary11.tempdomainname.com/GLOBAL/NEWSNOTES/xNEWSNOTES/newsnote05_01/soa_whisc.htm
http://www.ciponline.org/facts/soa.htm
http://www.spectrezine.org/war/HendrikFile.htm

In meiner meinung, as long as a Government like the USA is allowed to interfere in world politics to the extent it does, often playing both sides, and causing social and economic destabilisation in eastern europe, south america, and the middle & near east.

Add this to the fact that Native American Indians in some areas of the USA are denied the right for the last 25 years to repair their homes among other spirit-breaking laws, and i feel there is all the evidence needed to compare the USA to NAZI warlords, with a desire for a new world order...under the influence of the USA Government & Military.

"The hands of the University of Chicago's "doomsday clock", which is said to be the best indicator of Armageddon, were moved two minutes closer to midnight - nuclear war It now reads 23:53.

In my opinion, we are definitely in the grip of the build up to WWIII - as the male-female ratio grows to the projected 3:1 by 2030 (WHO) the prospect of World War becomes a great threat.

[gunjack]

thanx for the links and the response!

[invisibleplanet]

s'ok, gunnie, do u have any infos on what i call the 'far east' situation? i was shocked to hear of the N.Korean missle test of the Japanese coastline, and would be interested to read why N.Korea is feeling threatened by USA.

[owain_k]

Dark days we are living indeed, was unaware of the N.Korean situation. Am keen to knowe more...........

I just find it vwery depressing that the government in the UK can't be arsed to give fire fighters a pay increase and sort out the public services here, yet are more than prepared to waste millions of £ of tax payers money in supporting the USA governments military actions which could potentially lead us into WWIII.

I blame Tony Blair for his selfish power crusade and total lack of respect for the British public at large, alongside Bush's thirst and stupidity in wishing to generate money for the arms industry whose money put him into power.

Just my tuppence anyhow, as for Palestine, my blood has boiled for too long over this situation so i won't go there today !!!

[gunjack]

notes on palestine:


One Brave Woman, IHOP
Politics | Article published Wednesday, November 13, 2002
Occupation is enational trauma,f PLO negotiator tells University of Toledo audience


Diana Buttu offered a glimpse yesterday into Palestinian life that often is obscured by seemingly unending coverage of suicide bombings and Israeli reprisals.

Ms. Buttu, legal adviser to the Palestine Liberation Organization, spoke at the University of Toledofs law school as part of a two-week tour of American cities designed to give the Palestinian perspective on the ongoing conflict.

"I believe if the vast majority of people in the United States knew what was going on in Palestine, they wouldnft continue to support Israel," she said.

In the past two years of Israeli-Palestinian fighting, 1,921 people have been killed on the Palestinian side and 651 people on the Israeli side, according to the Associated Press.

Born and raised in Toronto, Ms. Buttu felt compelled to enter this world of strife after the peace talks mediated by former President Bill Clinton at Camp David failed in 1999. She moved to Ramallah and has been part of the team that has negotiated with Israel since 2000.

She said after her speech that nothing could have prepared her for what life would be like under Israeli occupation, attacks, and curfews.

"Itfs incredibly difficult," said Ms. Buttu, who has a law degree from Queenfs University in Ontario and is pursuing a doctoral degree from Stanford Universityfs law school. "There is nothing in the Canadian or U.S. experience that teaches you how not to be free. And therefs nothing in my situation to teach you how to deal with an F-16 flying over your head."

She said hopes were high among most Palestinians that the 1993 Oslo peace accords would lead someday to statehood or at least stability. The failed negotiations at Camp David and the fighting since the Palestinian uprising in 2000 have created disillusionment and a bitter atmosphere, she said.

That attitude is fueled by a 6 p.m.-to-6 a.m. curfew, 70 percent of the population living on less than $2 a day, and 50 percent unemployment, she said.

"Theyfre thinking this is not a process of peace and reconciliation, not a process of peace between equals - this is about Israel trying to get rid of as many Palestinians as possible," Ms. Buttu said.

She said she believes the long-term Israeli strategy is to "get rid of us and hold onto the land."

Peace, she said, will be possible only if the Israelis give up land that theyfve occupied.

"We are living through a national trauma," Ms. Buttu said. "This is the worst time in Palestinian history since 1948."


http://www.globalexchange.org/education/speakers/DianaButtu.html
http://qsilver.queensu.ca/law/news/inthenews/buttu.htm
http://www.usefulwork.com/shark/buttu_forum.html







opinion on north korea:


north korea is a two headed beast... one smiles and asks for aide from the international community and pleads for modernization and the other scowls and brandishes chemical and nuclear weapons. folks who have gotten out of north korea and have made it into china, s. korea and japan will NEVER talk about the past.

did you hearabout the kidnappings/?

here are some links


http://www.state.gov/www/background_notes/north_korea_0696_bgn.html

http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/9-17-2002-26535.asp

http://www.goasiapacific.com/news/GoAsiaPacificBNA_697467.htm


here is a nuke article:

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- North Korea has revealed to the United States that it has a secret and active nuclear weapons program begun years after it promised to never again to pursue such a course, the White House said late Wednesday.

One senior administration official said Pyongyang made the acknowledgment only after it was confronted with evidence that it has a uranium-based program and enough plutonium for at least two nuclear weapons.

The North's admission prompted urgent consultations among the United States, Japan and South Korea -- the three nations that North Korea had promised under the so-called "agreed framework."

The diplomatic term describes the 1994 agreement under which North Korea said it would no longer seek to develop nuclear weapons.

In exchange, the United States and others agreed to help build two light water nuclear reactors to replace the plutonium-producing reactors Pyongyang was using, The Associated Press reported.

The reactors were being financed mostly by South Korea and Japan. Construction of the reactors began just two months ago.

The agreement also called for inspections to verify that the terms where being adhered to, but so far Pyongyang has blocked all attempts to make such inspections.

North Korea confirmed U.S. suspicions earlier this month during a high-level U.S. visit to Pyongyang, led by James Kelly, assistant secretary of state for Asian affairs.

The senior official said the revelation came in a meeting between Kelly and a top North Korean official, Kang Suk Ju, described as the equivalent of North Korean leader Kim Jong Il's right-hand man. These were the first such high level discussions between the two nations in two years.

The official said Kelly told Kang that the United States knew the country had a secret nuclear weapons program using "different technology" from that used prior to 1994, and that North Korea had saved enough plutonium for at least two nuclear weapons.

The North Korean official then shocked Kelly when he looked at him and said "something to the effect of, 'Your president called us a member of the axis of evil. ... Your troops are deployed on the Korean peninsula. ... Of course, we have a nuclear program,'" according to the senior administration source, who was briefed on the meeting.

"They are in material breach of the agreed framework," said White House spokesman Sean McCormack.

"We seek a peaceful resolution of this situation," McCormack said, according to the AP. "Everyone in the region has a stake in this issue and no peaceful nation wants to see a nuclear-armed North Korea."

"The United States and our allies call on North Korea to comply with its commitments under the nonproliferation treaty and to eliminate its nuclear weapons program in a verifiable manner," he said.

Following North Korea's admission, McCormack said a series of internal administration meetings about how to respond were held, culminating in a National Security Council meeting on the issue Tuesday.

President Bush is scheduled to meet jointly with the prime ministers of Japan and South Korea later this month at the annual Asian Pacific economic summit.

The development means the United States must end efforts to improve relations with North Korea, said State Department spokesman Richard Boucher.

"The United States was prepared to offer economic and political steps to improve the lives of the North Korean people, provided the North were dramatically to alter its behavior across a range of issues, including its weapons of mass destruction programs, development and export of ballistic missiles, threats to its neighbors, support for terrorism, and the deplorable treatment of the North Korean people," Boucher said in a statement.

"In light of our concerns about the North's nuclear weapons program, however, we are unable to pursue this approach."

Another senior administration official said the United States has told North Korea it had "violated" the agreed framework and that the agreement was now "nullified."

Boucher said Pyongyang also has violated the Nonproliferation Treaty, its International Atomic Energy Agency safeguards agreement, and the Joint North-South Declaration of the Denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula.

North Korea told U.S. officials it was no longer bound by the anti-nuclear agreement, U.S. officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity told the AP.

A CIA report in January said that during the second half of last year, North Korea "continued its attempts [to] procure technology worldwide that could have applications in its nuclear program," the AP reported.

"We assess that North Korea has produced enough plutonium for at least one, and possibly two, nuclear weapons," the report said.

Another senior U.S. official told CNN that Washington received intelligence "back over the summer months" indicating that North Korea had a nuclear weapons program involving the use of highly enriched uranium.

The intelligence, the official said, indicated the program was launched in the late 1990s -- several years after North Korea signed the agreement with the United States, Japan and South Korea.

The official said that when Kelly confronted the top North Korean official with information about the nuclear weapons program on October 4, the North Koreans were "belligerent" but did not dispute the U.S. claim and "showed not a hint of remorse."

The administration had already shared some of its intelligence with key congressional committees.

In his State of the Union address earlier this year, Bush referred to North Korea as a member of the "axis of evil," along with Iraq and Iran -- a statement rejected by Pyongyang.

Previously, U.S. fears over North Korea centered on its sale of ballistic missile technology to other countries, including Iran and Syria.

In August 1998, North Korea launched a rocket that flew over Japan. The launch prompted Japan to start work on an anti-missile shield, and the United States agreed to cooperate with the project.

At first, U.S. intelligence agencies told lawmakers in private briefings the North Koreans fired a three-stage ballistic missile. Analysts later concluded the rocket was a failed satellite launch, as North Korea reported at the time.

After months of tension with South Korea, the North resumed high-level talks in August that restarted stalled reconciliation efforts on the Korean peninsula -- divided by the most heavily armed border in the world, the AP reported.

The Koreas were divided following World War II and continued that way at the end of the inconclusive Korean War from 1950 to 1953. The United States still stations about 37,000 troops in South Korea as a deterrent against North Korea, according to the AP.

From Andrea Koppel and John King
CNN Washington Bureau
Thursday, October 17, 2002 Posted: 6:25 AM EDT (1025 GMT)

http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/10/16/us.nkorea/index.html

[zongkong]

sup gunj.

"...other nations where the people are forced to monitor their speech and actions as carefully as possible. and where governments use monetary aid meant for food, instead, for the development of weapons of mass destruction."

hmm I'd say you have to monitor your speech and actions in the US as well. also, think of all the money being used in the US being used for designing new weapons.. :/
money that could be used IMO a far more meaningful way.

it is true as you say however - there are no governments that are not corrupt.
conclusion: let's get rid of all governments and borders.
what is a border anyway?
it's an imaginary line. aren't we all born on the same planet? how come we can't choose where to live then..?

someone said earlier that humans are greedy by nature - but as the only animal with the ability of advanced thinking, surely we can overcome that..

[gunjack]

yo zong,


Originally posted by zongkong
"...other nations where the people are forced to monitor their speech and actions as carefully as possible. and where governments use monetary aid meant for food, instead, for the development of weapons of mass destruction."

hmm I'd say you have to monitor your speech and actions in the US as well.

not like in north korea. i can say fuck ge0rge bush as much as i like without having to worry about my family being killed.

Originally posted by zongkong also, think of all the money being used in the US being used for designing new weapons.. :/
money that could be used IMO a far more meaningful way.

this is a very good point!!!

Originally posted by zongkong it is true as you say however - there are no governments that are not corrupt.
conclusion: let's get rid of all governments and borders.
what is a border anyway?
it's an imaginary line. aren't we all born on the same planet? how come we can't choose where to live then..?

A LOT of anti-globalizationists would disagree!!! also there is the matter of the preservation of cultural heritage...

Originally posted by zongkong someone said earlier that humans are greedy by nature - but as the only animal with the ability of advanced thinking, surely we can overcome that..

that's what marx said too...

[Weishaupt]

if bush know, that he is a NAZI???

[deccard]

"not like in north korea. i can say fuck ge0rge bush as much as i like without having to worry about my family being killed"

the american government managed to fight their bloody wars outside the country. i guess almost every american president of the younger history had its war.
what about other countries? northkorea? the us has the biggest warmachine on this planet.
i don´t wanna slag the us off but at the current aggressive politic the us is a thread for mankind. (false communism killed billions but is history). they officially don´t care anymore about using nukes. just a matter what fits best to their plans.

anyhow. i guess we´re all fucked.
i´m gonna watch now my mad max survival video a third time...

[gunjack]

Originally posted by deccard
anyhow. i guess we´re all fucked.
i´m gonna watch now my mad max survival video a third time...





http://thevenusproject.com/index.html

[gunjack]

http://www.automotiveforums.com/kris/kris/+junk/world_according_to_america.gif