The P.C. debate

[TheWasp]

Political correctness ....

what d'ya think ?

Is it wrong for me to tell jokes about people different to myself ...

i.e , Skin colour , ableness of body , financial state blah blah blah

Does it make me an ignorant oaf because i like jokes that are un-pc ?


Should i hang ?

[jukka]

YES
















dunno, how says what is P.C. and what isn't ?

[V Knid esq]

I can't stand the term 'politically correct'... the 'correct' bit makes it sound like there's one correct way to be and veering from it is almost sinful... it's just like an updated version of institutional christian morality and damnation, which as we all know was the imposition of corporate power in the guise of individual ethical code. Also the idea that certain words are implicitly right or wrong is bordering on the totalitarian, it allows no room for subtlety and the rich soup of meanings that language can provide.

Having said all that, I know a lot of people who push racist and misoginyst language past the point of being funny or busting taboos just out of a sad arse machismo and desire to be transgressive and shocking etc and it gets very boring. I've noticed it a lot amongs gay friends actually, who seem to think that because they're in an opressed minority they are free to be offensive about other minorities...

Ultimately it should be about what you can square with your conscience, thinking about the context of what you are saying, who you are saying it, and whether the tone and intention of what you are saying comes across.

[V Knid esq]

(you cunts)

[jukka]

Originally posted by V Knid esq
(you cunts)

that wasn't politica correct at all !

take that back !

[Loz]

on the other end of the scale, met a fair few people who use the hatred of the term 'PC' as a springboard to being racist/homophobic/sexist

basically summing up their stance as "I'm not racist, I just find racist jokes funny, where's the harm?"

[TheWasp]

thinking about the context of what you are saying, who you are saying it, and whether the tone and intention of what you are saying comes across. [/B]


agreed matey , this is the key to the un-pc gag - guaging the audience .

[TheWasp]

Originally posted by Loz
on the other end of the scale, met a fair few people who use the hatred of the term 'PC' as a springboard to being racist/homophobic/sexist

basically summing up their stance as "I'm not racist, I just find racist jokes funny, where's the harm?"

so thinking so called racist jokes are funny makes you a racist?

[Loz]

to a degree, of course it does, because not only are you finding said stereotype funny, but you are reinforcing it, too

[TheWasp]

so i can only laugh at jokes about white Scotsmen with receeding hairlines ?

[Loz]

you can laugh at what you like, it is a free country, just think about what you're laughing about, and whether the joke is actually funny, or just funny because it contains a stereotype

[TheWasp]

thing is though , some stereotypes are funny . and some things about people are funny

you've met me . and you've seen the pic of frankSidebottom i get stick for ......which IS funny .....


if my friends we're black , would you see it as racist to make that gag ?

[Loz]

argh! please don't ever use the "I have black friends so I can't be racist" argument

(know you're not here, but that phrase is a sure sign of a racist trying to defend himself)

[Hagbard]

I've certainly laughed at jokes that other people would find highly offensive and probably sexist or racist.. about disasters etc.. but it's about the relationship you have with the person who tells the joke, maybe you're laughing at the absurdity of the joke or just because it's old fashioned or something.

But you have responsibility for jokes that you say, just because you might not hurt/insult somone with it doesn't mean someone who hears you tell it won't use it to offend someone else. Context innit.

[Paddy]

Originally posted by Monoxian
so i can only laugh at jokes about white Scotsmen with receeding hairlines ?

lol!

[TheWasp]

Originally posted by Steev
But you have responsibility for jokes that you say, just because you might not hurt/insult somone with it doesn't mean someone who hears you tell it won't use it to offend someone else. Context innit.

unless your talking about telling gags in front of children , we can't be held reponsible for other people's thoughts

[Hagbard]

Originally posted by Monoxian


unless your talking about telling gags in front of children , we can't be held reponsible for other people's thoughts

What do you mean?

[Paddy]

i prefer macs myself.

[JE:5]

Someone told a rascist joke in the pub last night that was with my girlfriends student house mates, I just told them straight up that I didn't find it funny. I think I embarrased him.

[TheWasp]

well , if i we're to tell a joke that was in my opinion , in the right context and wasn't offending anyone and there was a sneaky racist hiding up a tree listening , who then went a told said joke to Priest /rasta/white/fat/slut and caused offence ............

this would be my fault for being irresponsible with my gaggery ?

[Hagbard]

Originally posted by Monoxian
this would be my fault for being irresponsible with my gaggery ?

What do you reckon? Yes or no?
You have a 50% chance of success...

[TheWasp]

you must have me down as some sort of role model .......


clever answer by the way :(

[pongoid]

PC is for cunts. That's not to say you shouldn't be sesitive to others, but offend in context. I don't use the N-word. In fact a I ask a lot of my black friends to please not use it around me, because it's a bit of a hypocrisy in that they use it all the time amongst themselves, but if I use it, heads turn and feathers get ruffled, FAST. I ask them to not use it because I don't want to offend my friends or strangers, and I don't want to get accustomed to the term so that it slips out of my mouth without my thinking about it.

Frankly I find the term perpetuates the rift between people of lighter and darker skin colors. A black man will say it to another to distinguish his difference, and emphasize what he feels to a be a privelage to use that term, that folks who are not black are not allowed to enjoy. Yet these same fellows who are so happy to use this term will beat the racism drum in a New York second, if they feel it can be used to their advatage. They also call women bitches constantly while, while gossiping like little hens. Ignorance and stupidity are fashionable, and black kids who do well in school are often ostracised by their peers as "wanna-be whities".

As far as other stuff, like calling the "gravity-challenged" a load of fat fucks who can't be arsed to eat right and soak up our tax money to get Rascals and wheelchairs, or somebody with a "disadvanted appearance" a fucking gorm, or somebody at "intellectual disadvantage" a total dipshit, yeah, fair fuckin play. I think to not draw attention to issues by addressing them directly, but instead candy-coating them in easily digested and brushed aside terms is fuckin weak on society's part, a lefty idea that backfires constantly.

A little bit of uneasy humor can be a very eye-opening thing. All hail Richard Pryor.

[drop]

Originally posted by Monoxian


unless your talking about telling gags in front of children , we can't be held reponsible for other people's thoughts are you saying that its bad to tell stereotype jokes in front of children because it might corrupt but its not bad to tell the same jokes in front of adults because they know better. do you feel the responsibility lies with the person delivering the message (the joke) or the person who finds the message entertaining, thus fueling the messengers belief that these joke are beneficial in creating a healthier, and more productive society? hmmmmm ;)

[TheWasp]

All i'm saying is Kids may not understand irony ..........

I find racists so rediculous they make me laugh

and of course i intend to help build a healthier and more productive society .....;) in between taking drugs , paying a mortgage ,doing a bit of shagging and laughing at jokes about peoples mothers with animals

[Hagbard]

You wouldn't pay a mortgage in front of a child would you? Well then.

[Mirsha]

The problem with being PC is I can see it getting to the stage where people will find something like "The Scot's are a fiendly race" highly offensive because a term like Scot's could be looked at as a sladnerous word relating to race. It's the famous "pc gone mad" scenario. People become so worried about being PC that stuff begins to lose it's meaning, it's something I've never fully understood.

[V Knid esq]

There's no black and white in this (no pun intended)... censorship is bad, and the out-and-out banning of particular words or subjects is dangerous and leads to lazy thinking (i.e. not engaging with the minutae of difficult subjects but kind of sweeping them under the rug by not talking about them in direct terms)... also it often has a class agenda, especially when it comes to matters of racial terminology - the people doing the 'banning' are middle-class people who don't actually have to involve themselves with the difficult and fraught interaction of races in the workaday world for people in closely packed inner city environs etc... This is NOT to defend racist terminology in any way but often I've had the experience of being shocked or offended by the way someone is talking only to discover as the conversation goes on that they may actually have closer contact with and know more about the culture of people that they are referring to than I do, and that their attitude towards the people of other races or religions is deeply ambivalent and complex... and I'm not just talking about white people having these attitudes either... sometimes the web of prejudices and inter-relations between the Jamaicans, Bangladeshis, Turks, Kurds, Bosnians, Serbs, Chinese, Nigerians etc etc in somewhere like Peckham makes me fucking dizzy.

HOWEVER the telling and re-telling of jokes that belittle or dehumanise a group of people does often have real unpleasant effects. For example, in so many cases I've come across of violence against women, the perpetrators have been VERY fond of making a joke of it, and jovial use of terms like 'silly bitch' to make light of actual hatred. Indeed on more than one occasion I've heard people who I later discovered were responsible for real domestic violence laughing as they recited the Derek and Clive 'kick her in the cunt' routine in the pub... so though I love Peter Cook and have always really enjoyed the filth and fury of Derek and Clive, that bit (along with a lot of other stuff in that final D&C record) really gives me chills.

[pongoid]

Hmmm...don't know that kicking routine, and I don't think I'm too interested to hear it, myself, although admittedly watching a bit of fanny-kicking between ladies in a kung-fu flick has its amusing points. Kind of reassuring to know they do it to each other and not just us men, eh? A bit more open-mindedness about pangender crotch-booting...is it a good thing?

But yeah Knid, I concur.

call my old man a fucking nigger mate, infact make a fuking a joke about it,c all my old man ze bigg lipped gollywog sshit skinned cunt. how do u think he would feel, what with being half caste, he would be offfenedded woumdt he.

what u fuking cae what anby cunt thinks ,fuck em, there fuc,kinmg mugs mate, fuck em up the fucking sdhitter ate, fuckign guadaian reading fucking cunts who gives a fuck abotu what they fucjking think, trying balance theyre fucking lives, i shit them cunts..anyway. point it, don't worry about it monoxiion.

[notorious J.I.M]

Originally posted by nik-nak
i prefer macs myself.

lol I actually thought this was going to be a thread about computers from the title...I'm in the PC camp myself :!

[Sheridan]

Originally posted by notorious J.I.M


lol I actually thought this was going to be a thread about computers from the title...I'm in the PC camp myself :!

no, your just mac challenged.

[notorious J.I.M]

Originally posted by Sheridan


no, your just mac challenged.

Mybe but I'm not a Macist, some of my best friends are Mac users ;)

[pongoid]

Originally posted by Davros
call my old man a fucking nigger mate, infact make a fuking a joke about it,c all my old man ze bigg lipped gollywog sshit skinned cunt. how do u think he would feel, what with being half caste, he would be offfenedded woumdt he.

Would you?

[Sheridan]

Originally posted by notorious J.I.M


Mybe but I'm not a Macist, some of my best friends are Mac users ;)

:) lol

[JonnySpeed]

There's one way to not to be and that's not spiteful, not.

on the lateral thread about 'puders...

I like Sony stuff - I know I shouldn't but its never let me down. My laptop, discman, phone and now a decent MP3 player - so I'd run OSX on my laptop but it doesn't run so never mind. Apple hardware ain't special so I fall into the PC camp for freedom to have my computer running what I want to run on it.

[JonnySpeed]

and Macs are for chicks

[drop]

yes
nothing sez manliness more than a compaq

[Lighter Thief]

Originally posted by V Knid esq
There's no black and white in this (no pun intended)...

I don't believe you. Pun definitely intended.